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Post by konghan on Nov 11, 2004 19:30:26 GMT -5
the years? LOL studying for 2 years and practicing everyday in our kwan will only teach you up to the end of the basic curriculum! hehehe its only at this point that a disciple(not a student) learns how to use weapons LOL if this is the case then were all 2x 3x masters or even grandmasters! lol I would have benn a great-great grand master by now ;D ;D if my memory serve is correct, I spend 6 months in sam chien, 1 month tien te chien, 2 months di sip kun, 3 months pah kat and the next 12 months I learn song sui, song sui set sparing, di tsat & 5 foot pole. And at that time I was considered a fast learner because I train almost everyday.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 11, 2004 20:52:32 GMT -5
i got into song sui in almost 2 years. this is almost standard...in Bingkiam i think in 2 years one should be in song sui level(as i was told) i think this is expected from most Konghan Bingkiam boys? ? while some talented individuals can make it to song sui in a year! ;-) unfortunately,im not one of them...i got through things thru perseverance and dedication... 2 years is to short to know a system...its only enough to scratch the shel to observe what is within...may it be boxing or otherwise..i think this applies to ALL martial arts discipline...
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 11, 2004 21:17:30 GMT -5
Good day Suhana. This Mc Kung Fu phenomenon is the result of capitalism and the drive to make money. Unfortunately, is a way of life in modern society. Maybe if we go to the mountains in China...but I too believe they have not escape the influences of money making. Most regrettable situation, but it is not reversible. One day, I hope that the government will force these conmen to own up, or at least, declare the area of a martial arts school exempt from the law. This will allow the true masters to issue challenges and weed out the nonsense from society. I like your quote a lot. In fact, that is exactly how I find myself. The more I learn, the bigger the system seems to me. Sometimes, I feel dwarfed by it all and the quest to learn the system seems like an insurmountable task, however, another wise man once said "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". If we don't start walking, the journey will not get lesser. Warmest regards, Tze Hou Tze Hou Indeed, it's not good with all these" Mc Kungfu" , it's like junk food, not good for your body and health. The thousand miles stuff is one of Confucius saying. Yes, if you want to do something, you must start somewhere. the problem is we must be cautious, not to stept the wrong start. Once we start in the "Mc Kungfu", then we'll ended Cheers.
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Post by essence on Nov 11, 2004 23:46:39 GMT -5
The thousand miles stuff is one of Confucius saying. Yes, if you want to do something, you must start somewhere. the problem is we must be cautious, not to stept the wrong start. Once we start in the "Mc Kungfu", then we'll ended Good day Suhana. I understand this point very well, thus, before starting lessons with anyone, I will ask politely if I can come to one of their classes to watch. I will also ask them about themselves and their style. One example: While in Australia, I had a hard time locating a Hung Gar sifu, and thought, since Wing Chun has such a large base here, I might as well pick it up, so I called around and decided to visit a Wing Chun sifu who was teaching out of his home. While observing his class, I noticed he emphasised heavily on short power. He also attempted to demonstrate the inch power to me, but even to my eyes, I knew something was wrong. His foot did not remain rooted while executing the movement. In fact, his whole body lunged forward, sort of like a hop, and he pulled his fist back before driving it forward, and that does not look anything like real inch power to me. I then proceeded to ask him about rooting (as I was a NCK practitioner before and I am a Hung Gar lover at heart), which he said he found very important. As he never once went into Sei Ping Ma, I asked him how he rooted himself, and he told me he uses the Kim Yeung Ma (with toes turn inwards) to ground himself, which I found reasonable. However, he went on to make fun of the Sei Ping Ma, squatting low and saying "how do you expect to fight like that?" At that moment, I felt insulted. Next, I asked him about cultivation of Chi and internal work, to which he replied "Wing Chun doesn't teach internal strength". That statement sealed it for me. I knew he was never going to teach me anything. First of all, by going into the Kim Yeung Ma, Heaven (Crown of head) and Earth (Pereneum) is aligned and this activates the dan tien, allowing abdominal breathing to cultivate and circulate Chi. This serious point, he missed. And, the fact that he emphasised inch power but had no idea of the internal aspect of the art told me he was doing this to attract people. Without internal power, there will be no "geng" hence, your inch power will not be good, never anything like it was meant to be. That was one of my experiences. I thought I had found a respectable sifu, who taught out of his home because he did not want to market himself, but to my dismay, he was using the home as another point to attract people. Good thing that I found my Hung Gar Sifu 2 weeks later. Haven't looked back since. Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 12, 2004 2:39:25 GMT -5
Hey Tze Hou, Sorry, on the road for the next few days. Hard to find internet connection all the times when I am travelling. Lau Chee Meng used to run "Tai Tong Pak Hok". His son is Lau Hong Chee - the TCS fighting choreographer. Not sure he is still there now. I will be back in Kuching on Monday 15th and I will be able to better reply to all. Thank you.
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 12, 2004 2:45:55 GMT -5
Good day Suhana. I understand this point very well, thus, before starting lessons with anyone, I will ask politely if I can come to one of their classes to watch. I will also ask them about themselves and their style. One example: While in Australia, I had a hard time locating a Hung Gar sifu, and thought, since Wing Chun has such a large base here, I might as well pick it up, so I called around and decided to visit a Wing Chun sifu who was teaching out of his home. While observing his class, I noticed he emphasised heavily on short power. He also attempted to demonstrate the inch power to me, but even to my eyes, I knew something was wrong. His foot did not remain rooted while executing the movement. In fact, his whole body lunged forward, sort of like a hop, and he pulled his fist back before driving it forward, and that does not look anything like real inch power to me. I then proceeded to ask him about rooting (as I was a NCK practitioner before and I am a Hung Gar lover at heart), which he said he found very important. As he never once went into Sei Ping Ma, I asked him how he rooted himself, and he told me he uses the Kim Yeung Ma (with toes turn inwards) to ground himself, which I found reasonable. However, he went on to make fun of the Sei Ping Ma, squatting low and saying "how do you expect to fight like that?" At that moment, I felt insulted. Next, I asked him about cultivation of Chi and internal work, to which he replied "Wing Chun doesn't teach internal strength". That statement sealed it for me. I knew he was never going to teach me anything. First of all, by going into the Kim Yeung Ma, Heaven (Crown of head) and Earth (Pereneum) is aligned and this activates the dan tien, allowing abdominal breathing to cultivate and circulate Chi. This serious point, he missed. And, the fact that he emphasised inch power but had no idea of the internal aspect of the art told me he was doing this to attract people. Without internal power, there will be no "geng" hence, your inch power will not be good, never anything like it was meant to be. That was one of my experiences. I thought I had found a respectable sifu, who taught out of his home because he did not want to market himself, but to my dismay, he was using the home as another point to attract people. Good thing that I found my Hung Gar Sifu 2 weeks later. Haven't looked back since. Warmest regards, Tze Hou Tze Hou ni hao I fully understand the situations that you've experienced. It's so disappointing, but what can you do? Too many "Mc Kungfu." Lucky you've found the "real gold." Cheers.
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Post by essence on Nov 12, 2004 3:33:54 GMT -5
I will be back in Kuching on Monday 15th and I will be able to better reply to all. Thank you. Good day Eric. No worries, take care till then. Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 14, 2004 20:00:16 GMT -5
Good day Eric. No worries, take care till then. Warmest regards, Tze Hou Hi friends, Da Jie Hao (Wishing everybody well – just in case you are wondering what this phrase means). Landed in Kuching this morning. A bit of exciting news for all you NCK fanatics – I went through some of my old books and mags in Singapore and guess what I found? Feature articles on KONGHAN written back in the 70s and 80s. There is even one whole form in those mags – looks like an intermediate forms. I got another version of NCK San Chiem with me also. And last but not least, the original “Feeding Crane” book written by Liu Ko himself. Most of what you see now is the newer revamped version done by the son. Quite a bit of history and principles of their system included in this original print. This book and another, San Chiem by the Long-Limb Crane sect, are the only good books ever published on Fuzhou Cranes. Liu’s book was given to me as a birthday gift by my White Crane brothers all those years ago – must be a collector’s thingy now. Okay here is the deal, for the right quantity of Carlsberg/Tiger/TsingTao (anything except American’s beer), I will send you Xeroxed copies. Seriously, if you want these, just PM me with snail-mail address. We will do the Carlsberg when we meet.
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 15, 2004 0:08:31 GMT -5
I would have benn a great-great grand master by now ;D ;D So you are now to be addressed as "Tua Chor Kong" or "Tua Shi Kong" ?
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Post by essence on Nov 15, 2004 0:09:45 GMT -5
Good day Eric.
Do you find any more similarities in those manuals that you found in Singapore?
Care to share?
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 15, 2004 0:35:12 GMT -5
Good day Eric. Do you find any more similarities in those manuals that you found in Singapore? Care to share? Warmest regards, Tze Hou Hey Tze Hou, Can't really say in the NCK's context - my knowledge is limited to watching others. I know that there are many different versions of San Chiem done by different folks in Singapore. Familar with "Kok Tiong" - one time operating in Balestier area ? They are supposed to be Eng Choon Peho and some NCK mixed I think. One of Pan Nam's, the late Wing Chun master in China, sons was teaching in Kok Tiong. Seen some of their San Chiem and can't really place them. Even "Fong Yang" do a few San Chiem forms. They do something called "Ki Chiem" after the introductory San Chiem. I was told that Fong Yang and NCK are very intimately connected - just don't know how. The sad thing now is that most of these old schools are no longer active and it is very difficult to trace their descendents. Have you heard of Sam Po (3 treasures) koon ? This is another San Chiem based system of kung Fu. Long time ago they had a club near Sin Min Sec School along Hougang.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 15, 2004 2:24:49 GMT -5
SCAN SCAN SCAN!!! hehehe
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 15, 2004 7:21:33 GMT -5
Hi Pit,
Yes, planning on scanning and posting a bunch of old articles/pixs etc.
All my magazines are yellowing so storing them in electronic media is one good way of preserving them.
Some of these materials are really priceless, to me at least.
More mouth-watering stuff (for Evert I am sure) :-
1. Hung Fut's Crazy Monk Stick form.
2. Early Bak Mei stuff.
3. Southern Praying Mantis hand set.
4. A Yau Kung Mung form that could easily be mistaken for a NCK or Tai Chor form.
5. Write-up on "Dao Pai", which for some reasons I don't get to read/hear about these days. This is the style with the "mad monk" form. There is even a spin-off from this called "Lost Track Lohan" and this is totally unlike the Northern Lost Track Kung Fu.
6. "Foong Gar" or Pheonix style Kung Fu Cantonese style. Not the Fukien Chu Gar Kau but a Cantonese stream.
7. For those interested in White Crane - another Fukien style peho popular in West Malaysia in the 70s.
And finally, a article about the late GM Kan Teck Guan. For years, I have heard that he was more peho than NCK. I actually got a article describing him as a Eng Choon Peho Master and not NCK.
Never really bothered before - not my focus. But these days, I am paying more attention to NCK - all your fault ;D ;D ;D
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Post by pitbull on Nov 15, 2004 17:43:14 GMT -5
welcome to the club! hehehe i would like to post scans as well for contribution...too bad scanner is dead...but found new life as paperweight and book weight
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 16, 2004 9:15:18 GMT -5
Hi Tze Hou, I think we should discuss things openly – the way it should be. Wu Lin is one family, at least, that is the way I was brought up. So if we are all true descendents of the various “pai”, we should be able to talk candidly and not hurt each other. All the rows are really about prestige and gains. Something that was really alien in our Sifu’s generation. The only dispute is “historical” and even then mutual respect between different “pai” prohibited any thing ungainly from taking place. I said this before and I am repeating here. Kung Fu now is more or less a free time activity. Some do it for self-defense, as a form of keeping fit and (in my case) as a cultural form. But how many do it to keep alive as a routine? Many of our Sifus fought with their kung fu skill to protect life and limb. And really when you are busy doing this, you don’t want to waste time getting involved in politics and blah blah blah. You stay united and fight the common enemies. Tze Hou, you are probably too young to remember the racial riots in Singapore. I was just a kid then but I do remember the men folk in my kampong (hougang area) with sharpened metal pipes fighting with attackers. And for the longest time (before the family relocated to Toa Payoh) we kept sharpened pipes in the house just in case. Now, of course, the government did a fantastic job of making sure that racial riots are fully contained. And this brings me to my next point – something that really irks me. TCMA is no longer “relevant” and must be modified in order to work. I wonder who these peoples are and based on what authority is this statement issued? TCMA (the ones that survive to date) is time-tested battlefields proven system of fighting. If you think what you are doing is ineffective, the questions that you need to ask are:- 1. The person teaching you, is he really qualified or know the real stuff? 2. Are you given the system fully or are things held back from you for whatever reasons? In my time, every kung fu exponent was looking for occasions to “touch hands” and test their skill. The thought of modifying or “updating” never cross our minds. To begin with, there are so much to learn and every class you learn something new from the Sifu. Even with the late Bruce Lee, there is a theory that he “created” Jeet Kune Do because he left Wing Chun prematurely and needed to acquire more to make up. Jeet Kune Do is the product of that quest. I am just repeating a Chinese article that I read pertaining to this – I am no expert on Bruce Lee. This I do know; study and train your style thoroughly. In your case, Hung Gar and NCK, 2 of the biggest names in the world of Southern Chinese Kung Fu. I am only beginning to understand NCK more through interaction in this forum with all the NCK champions. And as for Hung Gar, you need to try very hard to find another system to top this in terms of battle effectiveness. All my elders speak very highly of this system. In fact, in Singapore, it was very popular to say; “The history of Hung Gar is written in BLOOD”. I have the highest respect for these 2 mighty systems and as far as I am concerned, only a fool would want to make changes to them. Thank you.
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