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Post by pitbull on Nov 9, 2004 19:51:00 GMT -5
Please correct meif I am wrong, but I have the idea that this "shaking" is practiced in many other systems as well. For instance TSK and Chen Style Tai Chi, I see these skills back. It should be interesting to start analyzing this phenomene in detail. Who is interested in doing this? OI am willing to join and start giving examples. Eric, where is the place for such discussion? And do I need to send you a letter for an eventual password? Warm regards, Evert. excellent! lets have that! so that we can have an in depth analysis of stuff... as for NCK shaking hips, it came from john travolta or should i say white crane. NCK never forgets the ancestors...even the opening salute sometimes take longer than other styles just bec of saluting al 5 chors...
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Post by pitbull on Nov 9, 2004 20:00:56 GMT -5
about the sinking of shoulders and dantien,its different amongst NCK lineages. as far as me i will not discuss it here in the open.
however,i would like to also know the diff between fuzhou and eng chun peho...all the while i thoughtits one and the same bird...whats thereal deal?
PS: is sam chien do still doing volunteer fire protection work?
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 9, 2004 22:39:33 GMT -5
Hey Pit,
You're right, Same bird but flew in different directions.
Read the other board - I did quite a bit of explaining the differences.
I'll wait a while before I move this topic to the "Password" area.
You're right - some things we want to be careful. Get into the wrong hands, they get twisted and re-packaged for sales.
Lol also, I am also giving my dogs Carlsberg and they love it.
Soon, I will announce my new Drunken Dog Kung Fu.hahahaha.
;D
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Post by essence on Nov 10, 2004 0:51:53 GMT -5
Good day everybody. I have come across a very unique website through SFO that I feel you people will be better able to explain to me. The Nam Yang Pugilistic Association: The founder of this Association (Master Ang Lian Huat) is from Singapore (maybe Eric has heard of him). I am not sure if this constitutes a style of its own, but it talks about Tiger and Crane Combination (Fu Hock Seung Ying Kuen in Hung Gar, although I am not sure if it is implied), but it does say Tiger from Tai Chor and Shuang Yang Pei Ho. However, in the video galleries, you will see demonstrations of what to me is Chit Bor Sam Chien and various other Ngo Chor forms. This has confused me, is what they are doing Ngo Chor or some other style? They also do a form of Chi Sao and claim this is present in the Crane style. I also notice they practice Chai Sao, which my Hung Gar teaches as a form of sensitivity training. Is this a combination of all styles of kung fu or is this evident of the relations between the styles? www.namyang.co.uk/index.htmlWarmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 10, 2004 2:33:33 GMT -5
HaHaHa Tze Hou,
Welcome to the world of instant coffee and Maggi Mee. And now, the world of instant Kung Fu flavoring.
Namyang:-
1. The late Sifu Ang Lian Huat was NCK. His club was in Geylang and he taught under the banner of “Nam Yang”. For some reasons, he called his style “Tiger-Crane” and not NCK. But everybody in Singapore is aware of his Kung Fu background.
2. Dennis Ngo is from Singapore. He was a student of Sifu Tan Su Ting, I think. He is too young to be a direct student of the late Sifu Ang. Anyway, last I heard, they had a fallout and are now more or less independent.
3. Sifu Tan Su Ting is a personal friend and he lives in Tampines, my kampong. He still has a small outfit in Geylang but these days more of an “R&R” rather than a Kung Fu club. His club is called “Eng Choon Kok Shu Kuan” or something like that. Remember the murder of “Ang Swa Shiao”, it took place around his club, the guy was knifed in his throat and bled to death.
4. Namyang is as White Crane as you guys in NCK and that’s it. Martin Watts, the Eng Choon player, wrote to Dennis Ngo for clarifications but got very little.
5. Dennis is now, off course, the big-time coordinator of a White Crane Research committee, endorsed by the mainland Chinese.
Here are some interesting points to note:-
1. Why is a NCK player selling himself as White Crane? 2. Who taught him White Crane? What is his White Crane lineage? 3. He is now linked with Ruan Dong; the Communist government sanctioned Whooping Crane “expert”. This chap is not even recognized by the old Whooping Crane family. We have seen this “expert” doing his so-called “Whooping Crane” and our opinion – a great Wushu dancer! 4. Why is the Chinese government appointing a non-White Crane player to head a White Crane Research team?
Personally the biggest joke is this; Ruan Dong was the guy that many karate researchers spoke to in the investigations of link between karate and Whooping Crane.
Hahahahahahahaha ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You have the archetypal case of the blind leading the blind here.
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 10, 2004 2:55:11 GMT -5
Eric ni hao Can you explain a bit more about: 1. The NCK player selling himself as White Crane? 2. Ruan Dong? Xie Xie
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Post by essence on Nov 10, 2004 4:49:52 GMT -5
1. Why is a NCK player selling himself as White Crane? 2. Who taught him White Crane? What is his White Crane lineage? 3. He is now linked with Ruan Dong; the Communist government sanctioned Whooping Crane “expert”. This chap is not even recognized by the old Whooping Crane family. We have seen this “expert” doing his so-called “Whooping Crane” and our opinion – a great Wushu dancer! 4. Why is the Chinese government appointing a non-White Crane player to head a White Crane Research team? Good day Eric. 1) This was exactly what got me confused. I openly declare what I practice, unless, something bad has happened and I assume you don't want to openly say this. 2) Apparently his White Crane kung fu was imparted to him by "a monk from Chuan Chew Shaolin Temple" called Mioa Sian Meng. Does this ring any bells? 3) I am currently studying about the forms of control exercised by Communist China over media in university (exam for this tomorrow). I suppose, due to not wanting to face a second boxer's rebellion, the Chinese Government suppressed martial arts and now that they are opening up once again, they are looking for their roots and as you said, are the blind leading the blind and do not have substantial means to verify claims of authencity. 4) This, I will have to ask for your opinion as to me, it could be due to his association with Master Ang and his supposed White Crane style. This issue of "instant kung fu flavour" is really perplexing. Have you also heard of Nan Wah Pai? I believe they teach in primary and secondary schools and hold regular Chi Kung demonstrations letting trucks run over their bellies. Are they one and the same? Another thing I needed to verify with you is that Mainland China does not have any more "zhen zhong" White Crane in a manner of speaking as the practitioners left China due to Communist actions against martial artists. Is this true for many of the martial arts in China? Last question for now, my dad works in "Cow Car Water" (Goo Chia Chwee) and as such, I was roaming around that area since I was 3. I have noticed a hall with a board containing the words Pai He in Mandarin. This is located near Keong Saik Road if I remember correctly. Any idea about this place? (I almost wanted to go in to ask if they teach White Crane when I was younger). Another question for Evert while we're on this topic. As you have said, there are many styles of Hung Gar of which the most common form would be Huang Fei Hong's version. I am intrigued by this, especially with village Hung Gar, which I have been told is a very short range system, focusing on short bridges. I would also like to know more about Ha Say Fu, as I have no idea what this is except it is somehow related to Hung Gar. Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 10, 2004 6:31:06 GMT -5
Hi “Tze Hou,
This is where I stand:-
1. For quite a few years now, White Crane has become very ‘marketable” because of the supposed connection with some Karate. Not so much of this is witnessed in Asia (most of us teach for free or for peanuts anyway) but more in Western countries and other non-Chinese communities. Like mushrooms after a downpour, White Crane experts start appearing and fighting one another to claim authenticity. The more authentic, the more “marketable” and therefore more profitable in terms of paying students membership, seminars/workshops, videos and books release. My White Crane elders and seniors were watching this phenomenon and find some of these feuding very amusing.
2. The surest and quickest (so they thought) to achieve “authenticity” was to go to China and obtain approval from White Crane ‘authorities”. The paradox of this is that China is almost devoid of traditional White Crane. Except for Eng Choon Fukien Crane, most of the other Cranes were either replanted or re-assembled using whatever that is left after the communist’s purging. Feeding Crane is one good case of replanted Crane in China. Many Fuzhou Crane Masters in Singapore were called to do the same. But few did. I guess you could say our Singapore seniors are very dubious about the communists and their motive. Post Mao’s China is all about making up for lost time in terms of making money. Nothing is sacred, I guess, in this pursuit. Look at Wushu – probably one of the biggest money spinners for China today in the sports arena. But is Wushu Chinese fighting art? Well you read what the rest thought about this in this forum.
3. Tze Hou, I couldn’t care less about all this. I love what I do and I am perfectly happy just doing it quietly. Taught my White Crane to a few students in the US and I am satisfied. At least I fulfilled one of my duties for receiving the art. My top White Crane student is Chas Fisher – he is a very good Wing Chun player before meeting me. And today he carries the burden of passing on some of the White Crane I taught him. (Are you reading this Chas?). Chas is Seeker in this forum.
4. So why am I appearing in a public forum now? It is because too much trash has been packaged as White Crane & in particular Whooping Crane. My elders are tired of all these fabrications and they want to set the record straight. I am picked to do this because and only because I taught White Crane in the US. To them, this makes me the most eligible. In terms of Kung Fu, I am really nowhere near them.
5. Tze Hou, as you travel the Kung Fu path, you are going to meet all sorts. Folks like Evert and Martin, I really salute them. Non-Chinese walking the Chinese path – must be a real load. Evert is truly someone I respect – a Dutch voice speaking the Chinese truth and getting knocked for doing this. Well Evert, you know I will always be there if you need me. The Chinese members of this forum are really something else. The zeal and devotion pouring out of every sentence they post about their art makes me feel good that I am Chinese. On the other hand, you are also going to run into those who would not pause, even for a second, to warp and disfigure Kung Fu for their own personal gains.
Tze Hou, seek the truth and don’t be afraid to speak the truth.
Chinese Kung Fu is our legacy and it is our calling to safeguard it for the future generations – Chinese or non-Chinese.
Nam Wah Pai - no they are not related to Dennis Ngo. They do their own "hybrid" style. One of the "Made in Singapore" systems.
Keong Saik Street Pak Hok is Lama Pai Pak Hok. Sifu Mok Weng Chow's school. The other famous Pak Hok school is Lau Chee Meng's. Both these Sifus were GM Leong Zi Yam top students. (My spelling of names could be wrong. Cantonese names and like you I am more comfy with Hockien).
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 10, 2004 7:55:16 GMT -5
On the below forum you will find more information about the system. There was a time that I did research, but I closed the book. Me and my student did launched some letters, and had contacts with a practitioner with the nickname Hasayfu. A very nice young man who met my student in the USA recently. www.forumco.com/hungkuennet/default.aspUse the Search engine on this side, or you can contact this person direct. His name is Stephen Chew and a long time student of Kwong Wing Lam. I leave it to him to answer your questions, and references to books, articles. A little extra information you can find on the next homepage: www.fuhok.com/You may use my name in communication, there is respect between us....... Good Luck, Evert.
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Post by konghan on Nov 10, 2004 8:39:25 GMT -5
HaHaHa Tze Hou, 1. Why is a NCK player selling himself as White Crane? 2. Who taught him White Crane? What is his White Crane lineage? 3. He is now linked with Ruan Dong; the Communist government sanctioned Whooping Crane “expert? This chap is not even recognized by the old Whooping Crane family. We have seen this “expert?doing his so-called “Whooping Crane?and our opinion ?a great Wushu dancer! 4. Why is the Chinese government appointing a non-White Crane player to head a White Crane Research team? Personally the biggest joke is this; Ruan Dong was the guy that many karate researchers spoke to in the investigations of link between karate and Whooping Crane. Hahahahahahahaha ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D You have the archetypal case of the blind leading the blind here. All I know is that real NCKers like me, Suhana, Pit, Nothingness & others here & my alma mater club Kong Han Kock Sut Kwoon has & is always proud to be teaching & staying loyal to its heritage of ngo cho kun forefathers. And that respectful loyalty was prooven by our late sifu Losiensi during the 80's when wu shu tried to inplant wu shu flavour in our club. Losiesnsi stood firm & resisted to the point of loosing many senior members. And inspite of that he relentlessly pursue the establishement of The South Shaolin Wu Zu Quan International Federation by approaching surviving true nckers from Malaysia, Singapore & Indonesia including other Fujian kung fu like white crane with one purpose in mind to preserve & propagate the true knowledge of wu zu quan & traditional chinese kung fu. We don't know what the chinese government reason but we must do our part to continue spreading the right information.
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Post by essence on Nov 10, 2004 21:19:18 GMT -5
Good day Evert. I will be sending them emails regarding their style of Ha Say Fu and I will be quoting your name, as you have given me permission. Thank you for giving me this chance to explore further. Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by essence on Nov 10, 2004 21:28:02 GMT -5
Chinese Kung Fu is our legacy and it is our calling to safeguard it for the future generations – Chinese or non-Chinese. The other famous Pak Hok school is Lau Chee Meng's. Both these Sifus were GM Leong Zi Yam top students. Good day Eric. I understand that Chinese kung fu is our culture and that we should preserve it. But to be honest, I think in the end we will lose out to those whoring away our culture. The prostitution and degradation of Chinese martial arts has reached quite a bad stage which I am sure you will agree with. I do not know how we can compete with people who offer you instructor status after training for 2 years. In my opinion, especially in Hung Gar, 2 years if spent correctly is about the time needed to get a stable "sei ping ma", the foundation and basics needed to start building on. But, how many people have the mindset to want to spend 2 years training their horse? Like you said, everyone today wants a quick solution and all this "instant noodle" kung fu are popping up everywhere. I hope that we will be able to preserve our heritage though, through people like the members on this forum who continually seek out the truth and principles behind kung fu. And it is the discovery and the SHARING (must be careful of con artists) that we will be able to preserve our heritage and culture. Anyways, my other question is, where is Sifu Lau Chee Meng teaching? In Cow Car Water? Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 11, 2004 5:43:22 GMT -5
Good day Eric. I understand that Chinese kung fu is our culture and that we should preserve it. But to be honest, I think in the end we will lose out to those whoring away our culture. The prostitution and degradation of Chinese martial arts has reached quite a bad stage which I am sure you will agree with. I do not know how we can compete with people who offer you instructor status after training for 2 years. Warmest regards, Tze Hou Tze Hou ni hao Well Tze Hou, welcome to the reality of today's martial arts. It's becoming more like other business. How to make big bucks in the shortest period. What about the quality? Who cares! As long as the students keep on coming in, money keep on coming in too. And don't forget, the fame. This phenomenon is what I called "Mc Kungfu" , the cousin of Mc Donald ;D a.k.a. "fast food kungfu." Very, very, very, very, very, sad but hilarious ;D at the same time. Only the "brave" (or "liar" more appropriate) will elevated himself as "instructor", "teacher" after training for few years. What a joke ;D These individuals maybe never heard the saying: "THE MORE I LEARN, THE LESS I FEEL I KNOW." Cheers.
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Post by essence on Nov 11, 2004 6:41:20 GMT -5
These individuals maybe never heard the saying: "THE MORE I LEARN, THE LESS I FEEL I KNOW." Cheers. Good day Suhana. This Mc Kung Fu phenomenon is the result of capitalism and the drive to make money. Unfortunately, is a way of life in modern society. Maybe if we go to the mountains in China...but I too believe they have not escape the influences of money making. Most regrettable situation, but it is not reversible. One day, I hope that the government will force these conmen to own up, or at least, declare the area of a martial arts school exempt from the law. This will allow the true masters to issue challenges and weed out the nonsense from society. I like your quote a lot. In fact, that is exactly how I find myself. The more I learn, the bigger the system seems to me. Sometimes, I feel dwarfed by it all and the quest to learn the system seems like an insurmountable task, however, another wise man once said "The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". If we don't start walking, the journey will not get lesser. Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by pitbull on Nov 11, 2004 17:55:24 GMT -5
the years? LOL studying for 2 years and practicing everyday in our kwan will only teach you up to the end of the basic curriculum! hehehe its only at this point that a disciple(not a student) learns how to use weapons LOL if this is the case then were all 2x 3x masters or even grandmasters! lol
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