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Post by Nataraya on Oct 30, 2004 5:05:43 GMT -5
A statement made by Suhana, a few moons ago, kept my mind terrorizing. Although not meant as an offensive statement, it probably kept me thinking of it. His statement was that he would recognize a Ngo Cho practitioner by doing Saam Sing. I do not believe that this is true, absolutely not when he cross his hands in a friendly contest with a Hung Kuen, Haak Fu or for instance a Hakka player. Systems which is clear that they spent much time in creating a strong and solid bridge. Lien Kung is an important aspect of our branch, and in fact of all Siu Lam orientated systems. In fact all Southern based styles are known for their forceful bridge. But I agree with Suhana that not all of these systems/ schools have solid bridge hands. I cross with many practitioners hands and I must say that hard contact is not common. Besides the Stone Lock (Sek So Kung or Shi Zhen Gong in mandarin) we use dummy’s and the Four Bags form as additional tools. Soon I will attach this thread, with pictures of the dummies to show you several varieties as used in Kwantung province. For a beautiful picture of a Stone Lock, I like to refer to my friends homepage: www.fujianbaihe.com/fujianbaihe/photos.htmlLeft vertical row, 6th from above. My question for the Fukien practitioners is, are you using dummy forms too? And if so, what kind of dummy lay out are you using. Are the techniques presented in a form or just drills? We have two forms that we execute on a dummy. The first set is known as Taming Tiger dummy and done on a Wing Chun like dummy. The second form is Fu Hoc dummy, and done in a Plumblossom ‘armed’ dummy, so with five arms. Both sets have strong parallels with the respectively solo forms. Looking forward to information from our Fukien practitioners. Warm regards, Evert.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 30, 2004 9:29:36 GMT -5
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 30, 2004 22:16:00 GMT -5
A statement made by Suhana, a few moons ago, kept my mind terrorizing. Although not meant as an offensive statement, it probably kept me thinking of it. His statement was that he would recognize a Ngo Cho practitioner by doing Saam Sing. I do not believe that this is true, absolutely not when he cross his hands in a friendly contest with a Hung Kuen, Haak Fu or for instance a Hakka player. Looking forward to information from our Fukien practitioners. Warm regards, Evert. Evert ni hao "Saam Sing", what is the mandarin (putunghoa) of it? From the sound of the words, is it Cantonese? Is it similar to "Sam Chien" or similar to "Ngo Kie" . I can't give any comment until I am sure what you meant by that "Saam Sing", because I am sure I never use the words in my postings. Cheers.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 31, 2004 0:36:57 GMT -5
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 31, 2004 2:22:12 GMT -5
My excuse (again) for using Cantonese, it is part of my system of thinking and writing. Indeed San Xing is the three stars of the forearm being used to condition the mind, and partly the body. It is the first basic step in Pai Da some other systems call it Kao Da, I think?
Not completely true I realize now, the first step is in stance training, standing stake. Sound weird, but from a good and solid position you start to beat your other arm. Both dorsal sides of the arms against each other. Then the three star, five star, seven star and nine star drills come.
To make it more clear, the nine star use elbow, shoulder and back too. With heavy violence you beat each other, and besides the mental 'kick' / test, you can perfectly test your balance.
I have several books of Ngo Cho, and know that you are doing "San Sing" too. But there is soooooo much more. Our group love the psycholigal warfare, the smell of th Jiu and (probably) later at night, the arguments with their wifes, hahahahaha.
In Hong Kong I met a branch of the Siu Lam Kup Shui branch, they did crazy things, truly crazy. On a sidenote the successor (Ma Fei Lung) was the iron palm master of Hong Kong then. His hands, AMAZING, completely deformed and THICK. The Haak Fu (or black tiger branch) are doing VERY interesting things with their arms too. I met and crossed hans with great grandmasster of Lama Pai: Lo Wei Keung. He almost killed me with a claw to my glottis (airpipe).
And so I can go on, conditioning is very important in martial arts. If you can't handle a few kicks, knees and elbows, what is the sense then? Can you handle physical pain, all in the mind. If you don't test it frequently then you will miss the boat.
This thread is meant for the practitioners who like to find their path and understandings. Adding information and photo's, will make them think and ask. Finally this can lead to identiy the frauds between us martial arts 'masters'.
Warm regards,
Evert
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Post by stickinghands on Oct 31, 2004 2:57:53 GMT -5
My excuse (again) for using Cantonese, it is part of my system of thinking and writing. Indeed San Xing is the three stars of the forearm being used to condition the mind, and partly the body. It is the first basic step in Pai Da some other systems call it Kao Da, I think? Not completely true I realize now, the first step is in stance training, standing stake. Sound weird, but from a good and solid position you start to beat your other arm. Both dorsal sides of the arms against each other. Then the three star, five star, seven star and nine star drills come. To make it more clear, the nine star use elbow, shoulder and back too. With heavy violence you beat each other, and besides the mental 'kick' / test, you can perfectly test your balance. I have several books of Ngo Cho, and know that you are doing "San Sing" too. But there is soooooo much more. Our group love the psycholigal warfare, the smell of th Jiu and (probably) later at night, the arguments with their wifes, hahahahaha. In Hong Kong I met a branch of the Siu Lam Kup Shui branch, they did crazy things, truly crazy. On a sidenote the successor (Ma Fei Lung) was the iron palm master of Hong Kong then. His hands, AMAZING, completely deformed and THICK. The Haak Fu (or black tiger branch) are doing VERY interesting things with their arms too. I met and crossed hans with great grandmasster of Lama Pai: Lo Wei Keung. He almost killed me with a claw to my glottis (airpipe). And so I can go on, conditioning is very important in martial arts. If you can't handle a few kicks, knees and elbows, what is the sense then? Can you handle physical pain, all in the mind. If you don't test it frequently then you will miss the boat. This thread is meant for the practitioners who like to find their path and understandings. Adding information and photo's, will make them think and ask. Finally this can lead to identiy the frauds between us martial arts 'masters'. Warm regards, Evert why is it that non-kungfu martial artist always claims that we kungfu guys are always punching on thin air? infact, we have variations of wooden dummies or plum flower posts in order to strengthen our bridges, compare to non-kungfu martial arts who only use punching bags...... hitting your bridge fore-arm to a hard dummy is far to compare hitting on thin air.....
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 31, 2004 3:01:13 GMT -5
Hi Evert, You are totally right. No kung fu training is complete without conditioning. "Bridge" hands hardening can be found in almost all styles. In Shaolin, we extend this conditioning to the legs. You could see many beginners hitting them their shins with bundled canes and kicking hanging tree logs. Go to Datuk Png Chye Kim's Penang Shaolin website, there is a section on Shaolin conditioning.
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Post by stickinghands on Oct 31, 2004 3:20:44 GMT -5
Hi Evert, You are totally right. No kung fu training is complete without conditioning. "Bridge" hands hardening can be found in almost all styles. In Shaolin, we extend this conditioning to the legs. You could see many beginners hitting them their shins with bundled canes and kicking hanging tree logs. Go to Datuk Png Chye Kim's Penang Shaolin website, there is a section on Shaolin conditioning. good post, so the practitioners of the MuayThai, they claim that they are only the one who conditions their shinbones to make it harder..... they dont notice that almost all kungfu also conditions most of their body parts not only kungfu shinbones.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 31, 2004 6:58:12 GMT -5
Hi guys, More pix from Evert. 2 featuring the late Great Choy Li Fut Grandmaster Ho Ngau. The other is the late Grandmaster Lam from Dragon Shape Boxing. Hmm....Evert must be scanning these from old Hong Kong Kung Fu magazines. I got hundreds of them.........
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 1, 2004 4:59:02 GMT -5
My excuse (again) for using Cantonese, it is part of my system of thinking and writing. Indeed San Xing is the three stars of the forearm being used to condition the mind, and partly the body. It is the first basic step in Pai Da some other systems call it Kao Da, I think? Not completely true I realize now, the first step is in stance training, standing stake. Sound weird, but from a good and solid position you start to beat your other arm. Both dorsal sides of the arms against each other. Then the three star, five star, seven star and nine star drills come. To make it more clear, the nine star use elbow, shoulder and back too. With heavy violence you beat each other, and besides the mental 'kick' / test, you can perfectly test your balance. I have several books of Ngo Cho, and know that you are doing "San Sing" too. But there is soooooo much more. Our group love the psycholigal warfare, the smell of th Jiu and (probably) later at night, the arguments with their wifes, hahahahaha. In Hong Kong I met a branch of the Siu Lam Kup Shui branch, they did crazy things, truly crazy. On a sidenote the successor (Ma Fei Lung) was the iron palm master of Hong Kong then. His hands, AMAZING, completely deformed and THICK. The Haak Fu (or black tiger branch) are doing VERY interesting things with their arms too. I met and crossed hans with great grandmasster of Lama Pai: Lo Wei Keung. He almost killed me with a claw to my glottis (airpipe). And so I can go on, conditioning is very important in martial arts. If you can't handle a few kicks, knees and elbows, what is the sense then? Can you handle physical pain, all in the mind. If you don't test it frequently then you will miss the boat. This thread is meant for the practitioners who like to find their path and understandings. Adding information and photo's, will make them think and ask. Finally this can lead to identiy the frauds between us martial arts 'masters'. Warm regards, Evert Evert ni hao Ok, I got it now. In our lineage we use the term "ngo kie." It's part of our lineage "trademark" It starts from the very beginning of training. I've seen so many of my comrades left just because they can't "embraced the joy" of this training. Cheers.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 1, 2004 5:23:38 GMT -5
i love ka ngo kie :-) and i love ma ki :-)
can anybody point me to an odorless ti ta jiu?
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 1, 2004 7:25:58 GMT -5
I do not know of any 'oderless' Die Da Jiu. I was thinking about a wash, instead of a Jiu, but a wash can some negative side effects.
First you need much more material (and fire) to prepare the wash. Secondly you need a different wash afterwards. Most practitioners are then heading (quickly) homewards, and then the pores are still open. It is dangeruos because wind - damp [ depending upon the weather] can create serious deseases in your body, such as rheumatic disease.
What you can do is - at home - start washing your hands/ forearms. Also then you can have a general warm qualified medicie, instead as a cooling agency.
Personally nowadsys I hardly use meduicien anymore, unless I have the feeling to act animalistic. Sometimes the kick of the dummy sound brings me in trance, and I can spent much time hitting the dummy. Then I NEED to use, but in general my body can solve problems. Eventually I will can decid the next day to use some Gao san {poultice}. But also this smell rather strong. Then only my patients will smell it, and sometimes asks for the lovely "oder".
Kind regards.
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 1, 2004 8:14:04 GMT -5
Aha, more pictures from the "Mad Dutch Lohan". The first is our dear friend himself on the dummy doing a Hung Gar's Crane technique. Evert, what are you trying to do - steal my thunder hahahaha. The second is also from Hung Gar. The late Chan Hong Chong, one time President of Hong Kong Chinese MA Association. The third is from Mok Gar. Evert, do you have the issue with this same Sifu demonstrating all of Mok's Gar Ghost Kicks?
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Post by pitbull on Nov 1, 2004 18:11:13 GMT -5
he looks mmore caucasian than chinese! hehehe
evert: thank you very much for the feed...i need an odorless ti ta jiu bec i am training in the office as well...once a week..to the point that my forearms are sore and red and sometimes...really red w a little blood...and when i put our ti ta jiu recipe,i get complaints from my colleagues :-( i got comments like 'here comes the old man" and such...i have no choice but to train in the office as well since im too busy w 2 jobs... :-( sometimes i wish im a rich man's son so that i can spend my day doing kungfu...and walking my dog/s to the park :-(
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 1, 2004 22:04:23 GMT -5
he looks mmore caucasian than chinese! hehehe sometimes i wish im a rich man's son so that i can spend my day doing kungfu...and walking my dog/s to the park :-( Pitbull ni hao But when you are rich, I bet you will wish another things again. Xiao jie maybe, to "spar" with ;D Cheers.
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