Fighting principles...

[Eric Ling]

Hi folks,

I think it’s time to delve slighter deeper into the martial arts.

Besides history, culture and traits, I am hoping to see more interactions in the area of techniques/concepts and principles of individual systems.

And here, we are NOT limiting to Chinese Kung Fu.

Okay before we take off, let me just say that the platform is this:-

All fighting arts are, in one way or another, training you to be fast, strong, accurate and aggressive.

So definitive techniques/concepts and principles of your system is what we hope to share.

You don’t have to let the whole cat out of the bag, snapshots will be appreciated.

Personally, I would love to hear from Hakka players.

And if for any reasons you don’t wish to participate in this please drop me a note.

Thank you.

[clfsean]

In Choy Lee Fut, the idea is to always advance, never retreat is used with a common combination like Gwa Choy/Sow Choy/Chop Choy.

Lau Bun who brought CLF to America in the 1920's said he didn't need anything other than Gwa/Sow/Chop to win a fight. While the statement may seem a bit brash & even unreasonable, the idea is pretty sound. We use Gwa to bridge with or collapse an opponents arm(s). Then follow with Sow Choy that sweeps everything else that may still be up out of the way... including their head . Then finish with a Chop Choy to the body that sinks all the way through the strike.

[Leon]

I have an article about Japanese archery, that I wish I could share with you, but unfortunately I don't have it with me now.
But it was something like this.. the writer was an european who was studying the art of Japanese archery in Japan, with a Japanese sensei. In this traditional archery class, it didn't matter if youshhot the arrows accurately on target, the teacher emphasised on correct form and focus. For example, even if you hit bulls eye, your form could be sloppy. But even if you miss the target entirely, it wouldnt matter if you had the correct form.
The writer was frusrated with this kind of teachng method, and always raised the issue with his sensei. Even despite several times the sensei explaining it to him, he always felt unsatisfied with the answer. So finally the teacher asked to meet him at night. That night, the teacher gave him strips of paper, and asked him to put it somewhere near the wall. In total darkness, the teacher could shoot arrows into the papers.

This story is similar to what Bruce Lee said in Enter the dragon.. "When the opponent expands, l contract. When he contracts, l expand. And when there is an opportunity... l do not hit...it hits all by itself"

Lately I have been slowly reading 'A book of 5 rings' by Miyamoto Musashi ( www.samurai.com/5rings/ ) and Musashi also talks about 'controlling' the fight, Musashi is more detailed and has written specific techniques which help a person win the fight (such as taking higher terrain advantage, stand with your back to the sun, etc)

So my question is, does anyone know of any chinese kung fu techniques/literature that also deals with strategy? I know there is 'The art of war', but that is more geared towards armies and generals, I find it hard to relate.

;D My longest post here, I hardly post anything because the discussions here is way beyond my knowledge! But i'm interested in duelling strategy, I find it fascinating, and when I play fencing, there really is 'something' that can help a person win a duel, the 'something' that Bruce Lee says as "It" hits by itself.

[pitbull]

Leon said:

I have an article about Japanese archery, that I wish I could share with you, but unfortunately I don't have it with me now.
But it was something like this.. the writer was an european who was studying the art of Japanese archery in Japan, with a Japanese sensei. In this traditional archery class, it didn't matter if youshhot the arrows accurately on target, the teacher emphasised on correct form and focus. For example, even if you hit bulls eye, your form could be sloppy. But even if you miss the target entirely, it wouldnt matter if you had the correct form.
The writer was frusrated with this kind of teachng method, and always raised the issue with his sensei. Even despite several times the sensei explaining it to him, he always felt unsatisfied with the answer. So finally the teacher asked to meet him at night. That night, the teacher gave him strips of paper, and asked him to put it somewhere near the wall. In total darkness, the teacher could shoot arrows into the papers.

This story is similar to what Bruce Lee said in Enter the dragon.. "When the opponent expands, l contract. When he contracts, l expand. And when there is an opportunity... l do not hit...it hits all by itself"

Lately I have been slowly reading 'A book of 5 rings' by Miyamoto Musashi ( www.samurai.com/5rings/ ) and Musashi also talks about 'controlling' the fight, Musashi is more detailed and has written specific techniques which help a person win the fight (such as taking higher terrain advantage, stand with your back to the sun, etc)

So my question is, does anyone know of any chinese kung fu techniques/literature that also deals with strategy? I know there is 'The art of war', but that is more geared towards armies and generals, I find it hard to relate.

;D My longest post here, I hardly post anything because the discussions here is way beyond my knowledge! But i'm interested in duelling strategy, I find it fascinating, and when I play fencing, there really is 'something' that can help a person win a duel, the 'something' that Bruce Lee says as "It" hits by itself.

your best bet would be old chinese poems :-) they are like manuals that come w ur new stereo set :-)

when there is no bridge-make one
when you are bridged-break it....blah blah blah

sink your shoulders-ur strike is powerful
sink your dantien-u are invincible blah blah blah etc etc etc

etc etc etc hehehe

i was always poor in memorizing things :-(

im sure many of our comrades here know them by heart

[Eric Ling]

Gentlemen,

Beautiful, simply beautiful.

Exactly the kind of discussion I hope to have here.

Please keep it coming.........

A statement by a old Master here in Kuching;

Lose your "Quan Li" (fist principles) and you lose the soul of the system.

Dunk you (I hope "dunk' mean "thank" in Dutch. Evert?) ;D ;D ;D

[Eric Ling]

Hi small,

Hope you don’t mind if I quote you here;

“My Sifu says something like "they strike, I hit." I feel like I can share that, because it is also on our website.

That fits with my (shallow) perception of the art. This is coming from a student, not a sifu.

To me, Pak Mei is aggressively defensive. Not waiting for an error, but forcing an error. “<br>
You last statement is very interesting coming from a Pak Mei player.
Not waiting for an error, but forcing an error – so do you do a lot of “drawing” in your style” or forcing an opening?

In Fuzhou White Crane, we say “when you fight your opponent, you are first fighting his eyes”. “Eyes” here means perception. This concept can also be expanded to mean “forcing an error”. The poem for this concept goes roughly like this "White Crane Threading Clouds, Needles hidden in Cotton".

Basically if you examine the various Fuzhou Cranes, you would find some relatively harder than the rest.

Feeding Crane is my mind is one of these “hard” cranes.

If I take the underlining concept of “taking each fight to opponent’s 4th door”, Feeding Crane would force the opponent’s 4th door into range.

Whooping Crane would take a softer approach of moving to the 4th door.

[Eric Ling]

pitbull said:

your best bet would be old chinese poems :-) they are like manuals that come w ur new stereo set :-)

when there is no bridge-make one
when you are bridged-break it....blah blah blah

sink your shoulders-ur strike is powerful
sink your dantien-u are invincible blah blah blah etc etc etc

etc etc etc hehehe

i was always poor in memorizing things :-(

im sure many of our comrades here know them by heart

Pit, is that how you passed school exams?

etc etc etc etc ;D ;D ;D ;D

Btw, how's your dog?

[Fatman]

My personal philosophy is 'defend first, then counter'. This may not always be applicable, because sometimes it is best to attack first

I guess one fighting philosophy I have come across is to position yourself so that your opponent only has one attacking option. That way you know what he is going to do next.

As for fencing, I found the trick to success was to learn how to transition from parry to riposte as quickly and smoothly as possible. In attack, ensure that your arm remains extended and eludes your opponent's blade

[pitbull]

i passed my examinasions using ESP and shentar

its funny how as children we were tought to memorize the classics and we dont see the need why. now when we are adults its hard for us to recall LOL

im more of a concept absorber rather than memorizer or 'si t'ak' :-)

my dog isnt doing any better but at least she is a bit stronger now

as for fighting principles. i dont think i have them. it just goes out naturally..like instict...here in the office when my officemate throws a punch i would just parry it w the standard nck parry or kim the my leg would snap w/o me thinking...i think this is where the importance of kata comes in...when i was in dire straits inside a TINY crowded public vehicle last april 12 after i grabbed the hair of the mugger my right arm follows...w/o even thinking of it. muscle memory or too much di sip kun/20 punches?

[essence]

Good day people.

One of Hung Gar's fighting principles I have been introduced to recently, and I believe that this holds true for many other martial arts: Shou, Gong, Tui.

Shou: means to be on the alert, to watch, to be wary.

Gong: to attack.

Tui: to retreat.

To understand when to do all of this and how it applies to the situation will be a big help in any battle. The 3 words can be expanded to encompass any situation and I am sure the more experienced members of this board will be able to shed more light on this.

Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

[Suhana LIM]

Da jia ni men hao

Fighting principles? How to be able to transform and or eliminate my opponent's desire to fight. That's I think is the principles of fighting.

Cheers.

PS: Eric, I'm not Khek, but married to one. Is this make me as a "Khek players?" Why so discriminative lah?

[Eric Ling]

Suhana said:

Da jia ni men hao

Fighting principles? How to be able to transform and or eliminate my opponent's desire to fight. That's I think is the principles of fighting.

Cheers.

PS: Eric, I'm not Khek, but married to one. Is this make me as a "Khek players?" Why so discriminative lah?

Aiyoh,

First you Suhana.
Then you Frog style expert.
Later became Suheng.
Now you "Khek"

Make up your mind can or not ?

Suheng wan shui wan shui wan wan shui ;D ;D ;D ;D



Anyway Khek Kung Fu very "tock" always breaking this and that.
Must steal some techniques from them.

[Suhana LIM]

Eric ni hao

;D ;D The many layers of me ;D ;D. In dealing with people, I always use "MIRROR" principle. Dealing with a humble person, I am also humble. To communicate with a big mouth ego, I'll use my FROG STYLE. So basically use the other people's image, response accordingly with his character. That's a bit of my explanation about my "MIRROR" philosophy.

As a "guest", Khek of course must be..... you know lah.

Now, shall we back to the main issue here, fighting principles...

Cheers.

[Leon]

Fatman said:

My personal philosophy is 'defend first, then counter'. This may not always be applicable, because sometimes it is best to attack first

I guess one fighting philosophy I have come across is to position yourself so that your opponent only has one attacking option. That way you know what he is going to do next.

As for fencing, I found the trick to success was to learn how to transition from parry to riposte as quickly and smoothly as possible. In attack, ensure that your arm remains extended and eludes your opponent's blade

Yay another fencer!
The advice on parry ripste is also what my teacher always tells me, but i'm too lazy to learn my parry riposte properly My favourite weapon is epee, and my style is dashing in and out.

[DF]

I personally like the saying " but dong but gar/don't block, don't bridge".
Fighting is personal and I believe the way one fight is an expression of one's personality.

peace

DF