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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 18, 2004 9:42:01 GMT -5
Hi everybody,
Since Evert is busy with this DKF, I thought I start the ball rolling for Lohan Kung Fu.
Lohan Kung Fu is synonymous with Shaolin. One of the elementary building blocks of Shaolin Kung fu systems, the other, off course, is the 5 animals system.
Long history and some say as far back as the Dat Mo – the historical (fictional?) founder of Shaolin. According to the popular story, “Lohan 18 hand methods” is one of the forms passed down by Dat Mo himself.
The term Lohan also means “Arhat” for those familiar with Buddhist literature. For me, the explanation given was “Warrior” or “Fighting” monks.
This is one of 2 groups within the Shaolin inhabitants. You have the “Wen” or “Scholar” monks and the “Wu” monks who were martial artists trained to protect and defend the temple and live-in population.
Shaolin was a sanctuary for wounded and retired solders during the warring period in China. Some were simply sickened with the constant bloodletting and decide to seek a more quiet life within the Shaolin walls. “Bai Yu Feng” was one such recorded martial arts expert soldier.
These ex-soldiers brought with them fighting skills honed in the battle fields – tested realistic fighting techniques.
Sharp, lethal battlefield weapons techniques were modified to become stick techniques – which is why sticks are about the only weapon linked with Lohan Kung fu.
The earliest Lohan form is thought to be a Northern Shaolin form with the distinctive long stances, big movements and high kicks. These traits are almost all present in the later Southern version. If you examine all the Southern Shaolin forms – Lotus, 5 Animals, Bronze Men etc…. Lohan has got the most Northern texture.
Personally, the difference is almost insignificant. Shaolin Lohan is now being taught as Small Lohan, Big Lohan and the advanced “Xi Nu” Lohan or “Happy, Angry” Lohan.
The Lohan kung Fu that I studied is “military” kung fu – down-to-earth combat system. Speed, accuracy and power are the key words. The beauty is not so much in the technicalities of the individual techniques but more in the entire training system of Lohan Kung Fu. As mentioned, I want to be faster, accurate and more powerful than my opponents. Techniques that are most conducive in this case are simple and non-time wasting.
Lohan forms are intended to train exactly these attributes. Done quickly in a vigorous manner.
And Whooping Crane is believed to be the joint product of Fang Chi Niang’s soft crane and Shaolin Lohan.
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Post by nothingness on Oct 18, 2004 10:43:39 GMT -5
Any resemblance to P'ng Chyee Kim's Hood Kar Pai Lohan from Penang?
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 18, 2004 11:21:53 GMT -5
Hi nothingness,
To answer your question, I am going to quote from the website about Ven. Sek Koh Chum - Sifu Png's teacher :-
"It is one of the highest levels of art it includes attributes of emotions and sounds (thus the facial expressions).
This art was said to be practiced by only 4 of the original 18 disciples (of the Shuanglin Temple Singapore), it is said that common students such as those in Indonesia or Malaysia did not learn it. At the moment only 4 people know the entire 108 techniques/postures of the Xi Nu Luohan.
In fact most students/disciples did not learn the entire Luohan tradition because Shi Gao Can taught different skills to different students. That is why over 30 schools of the Shi Gao Can tradition appeared in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia over the years. "
My Shaolin teacher was Chong Beng Joo - the close-door disciple of Ven. Sek.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 18, 2004 19:15:01 GMT -5
Hi, Got a few pix here of a Northern & Southern Lohan form developed outside Shaolin walls. However, forms still show many signature Lohan postures like :- Lohan Hitting Bell Lohan Ascending Upto Sky Lohan Suppressing Evil Roping Moon etc........ These are techniques that are found in Shaolin Lohan both Northern and Southern. Also in almost all Lohan forms formulated outside Shaolin. The Sifu in white is from a Northern style Lohan and clad in yellow is Sifu Pan, one of the sons of late Sifu Pan Nam of Fatsan. I have an entire collection of Shaolin Lohan lying around someplace and when I find these, I will post some grabs.
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Post by nothingness on Oct 18, 2004 21:07:25 GMT -5
Hi, I have an entire collection of Shaolin Lohan lying around someplace and when I find these, I will post some grabs. You had to be ben a very good child so that everybody is leaving you with all the nice toys . I figure that your "librarian" job is a lifetime job that requires a total interest.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 18, 2004 21:23:10 GMT -5
You had to be ben a very good child so that everybody is leaving you with all the nice toys . I figure that your "librarian" job is a lifetime job that requires a total interest. Ha Ha Ha, Not so much a nice boy but more a "obsessed,possessed and fanatical" boy. My dad had a big collection of old stuffs from China to kick-start my fascination. I got books and manuals going as far back as the 1800s..... Used to go around "begging" for books, magazines and manuals from other schools. I actually started a web project a few years back but dropped it after a while - ran out of funds paying designers and maintaining server cost etc..... This site is called KungFuGalaxy. My most precious loot must be my White Crane materials. These were either passed down by my late teachers or pinched from the Fuzhou Clan Association' reading room - hehehe but with permission. Some "businessman" offered to buy these from me once and his offer was really "tempting". But hey, money is not everything right ? I prefer my "toys".
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 19, 2004 5:04:56 GMT -5
Ha Ha Ha, Not so much a nice boy but more a "obsessed,possessed and fanatical" boy. My dad had a big collection of old stuffs from China to kick-start my fascination. I got books and manuals going as far back as the 1800s..... Used to go around "begging" for books, magazines and manuals from other schools. I actually started a web project a few years back but dropped it after a while - ran out of funds paying designers and maintaining server cost etc..... This site is called KungFuGalaxy. My most precious loot must be my White Crane materials. These were either passed down by my late teachers or pinched from the Fuzhou Clan Association' reading room - hehehe but with permission. Some "businessman" offered to buy these from me once and his offer was really "tempting". But hey, money is not everything right ? I prefer my "toys". Eric ni hao If a man dwells on the past, he robs the present. But if a man ignores the past, he may rob the future. The seeds of our destiny are nourished by the experiences of our past. I hope you will always stick to the "money is not everything" principle. Chinese martial arts is part of our cultural identity. If you sell them, you sell your identity and your roots. Imagine a person without his roots. It's like martial arts without good stance, you'll ended up "floating." Cheers.
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Post by pitbull on Oct 23, 2004 21:43:09 GMT -5
we should be careful of 'hungry ghosts'
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 23, 2004 23:07:04 GMT -5
we should be careful of 'hungry ghosts' Pitbull ni hao No need to worry about "hungry ghosts", we feed them every Ching Ming / Cheng Beng Cheers.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 28, 2004 8:54:39 GMT -5
Luohan Quan:
Luohan Quan or the Arhat Boxing originated from the Shaolin style boxing. It has been called the 18 Hand tricks of Arhat, which consisted of 18 combinating skills and techniques. Along with its 24 movements in advancing and retreating, the Arhat boxing uses six routines of fist plays, two routines of palm plays, one routine of elbow play, four routines of feet plays and five routines of holding and strangle holding, each of which has its own practical value and health-building effect. The original Luohan was called the 18 form Arhat Boxing which was improved and developed through the years of practice. It later became the 27 form small Arhat boxing, the 54 form big Arhat boxing and the 108 form. While practicing, Arhat Boxing can be soft as willow twigs, as agile as a smart monkey jumping over a mountain gully, as mighty as a lion, and as powerful as a Dragon stirring at sea. According to the practice proverbs of the Arhat Boxing, the head of the boxer is like a wave, hands are like meteorites, the body like a willow twig, footwork is like that of a drunkard, blows are triggered by the mind and power is generated throughout the body. It should be difficult to tell whether one is playing with hardness or suppleness and whether the hits are substantial or empty. Free application of the Arhat Boxing skills can be achieved through years of practice and exercises.
Source: “Essentials of Chinese Wushu”: ISBN 0-8351-2830-X. page 99, 100, 101
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 28, 2004 9:20:41 GMT -5
some pictures from Evert. Covers of 2 old Lohan Boxing Books and opening pages of one of them. Hmmm.....Looks like our Dutch friend has got quite a collection - maybe as big as mine......
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 28, 2004 9:34:29 GMT -5
Evert,
Description is for Northern Lohan.
27, 54 and 108 refers to Honan Shaolin Lohan.
The Southern version differs :-
36 Big 36 Small and 36 Xi Nu or Emotions driven Lohan.
This is according to the Shaolin I studied.
Interestingly, Hop Gar and Lama Pai White Crane both got the Big/Small Lohan in their system.
The 6 basic long hands of Lama are very close to Lohan Big.
I believe that some karate movements/techniques are Lohan based.
If you look at Goju SanSeiRu, which is Fuzhou for "36", the ending posture is a typical Lohan posture.
Could have been transmitted through the "Whooping Crane" line. Early days Whooping Crane, which is Lohan and Fang's White Crane combo, has clear Lohan techniques. As it evolved, the Lohan faded somewhat. Today the only evidence of Lohan in Whooping Crane is a Lohan form still done by the old schools.
Send me enough Carlsberg and I'll send you Whooping Crane's Lohan on video.
Imagine this ; Lohan done with a crane flavor.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 28, 2004 9:49:11 GMT -5
Evert,
Heard of "Drunken" Lohan ? I think 7-stars Praying Mantis has got this form.
"Lost Track" Lohan ?
I read sometimes ago that "Dao Pai" has got a big collection of Lohan forms and one of them is "Lost Track" - the Southern version.
What about Bak LorHon Mun ?
Is "Lohan Suppressing Tiger" one of your Hung Gar's forms?
There is actually a Fukien Shaolin version of this forms.- don't do it myself but seen it a few times.
Would love to see the Cantonese version for comparision.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 28, 2004 10:04:55 GMT -5
I have an article about thh Drunken Lohan form, I remember that it is from Jon Funk his hand (Canada). Will try to find it, might take some time. In fact Drunken Lohan is a general form played in many styles....
Lo han Fook Fu Kuen, is a form played by Choy Lee Fut. It is labeled as an Internal style, I have it on tape somewhere, done during a workshop by Doc Fai Wong himself. I will see if I can find it and convert it to a DVD for you. Much easier to send to you.
LoHan Fook Fu Kuen is a long form, just as Gung Ji Fook Fu Kuen from the Hung Kuen style. It was interesting to notice that the Lo Han Fook Fu was done on one spot.
Did you know that Praying Mantis Boxing does have specific 18 Lo han exercises for health? I will see what my friend Robert Hui put on his forum about this exercise. My student play Tai Ji Mei Hua Tong Long Noxing, he taught me Ba Zhou, and I must say "a lovely set". I have MUCH respect for the intelectual luggage of these players. I wish that this was standard for the martial arts community...........
I will open my eyes for this thread for now on, and will see what cross my eyes. Sorry, but there is SOO much material about Lo Han. In fact every serious practitioner should start focussing himself on such a subject, to understand the path and the process.
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 28, 2004 10:16:39 GMT -5
I quickly extracted some information from the Tai Ji Mantis forum:
18 Roads of Luohan (Arhat) Conditioning exercise: 1. Immortal arches his hands 2. Tyrant lifts the cauldron 3. Left and right planting flowers 4. Old tree coils its roots 5. Yaksha probes the ocean 6. Pushes the window clears the block 7. Guardian warrior (Weito) presents the (thunderbolt) club 8. Old monk enters Dhyana (meditative states) 9. Iron ox tilts the earth 10. Blue dragon whips its tail 11. Left and right mounting horse 12. Swallow scoops up water 13. Tiger assumes human body 14. Chen Duan (the Doaist immortal) in deep slumber 15. Father and son three salutations 16. Carp flips up 17. General Zhang Liao presents robe 18. Golden hook hangs the jade vase 19. Robert
The Names from Sifu Lee Kam Wing (Seven Star Praying Mantis) are:
1. Fairy points the way 2. Mighty Lord raises up the the tripod 3. Left and right plunting flowers 4. Strong roots all around after leavy of the tree have fallen 5. The trident spirit to search the ocean 6. push open the window to shine the drawers 7. "Wai Toh" offer his rod 8. Old budhist monk in a trance 9. Iron ox ploughs the ground 10. Green Dragon shakes the tail 11. Left and ride side horses 12. Swallow drinks water 13. Tiger runs towards man 14. Chan Toon is entrap 15. Father and Sun are giving three salutes 16. Golden fish flips backwards 17. General offer his robe 18. Golden hook hang on Jade Vase
Jochem.
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On a side note: Did you know that Seven Star Praying Mantis changed the name from Lo Han Tang Lang? I asked this forum, why they decided to change that name. My question to that group:
“…………I realize that this is NOT the thread to launch this question, but decided to do so because its about Mantis Boxing.
For several months now, something kept me busy in relation to Praying Mantis Boxing. I hope that this letter will not be seen as offensive. Purely to fill in the many holes in the understanding of Chinese martial arts. First of all, I am not a Praying Mantis practitioner. My knowledge truly stops with Bung Bu and Ba Zhou. My question have to deal with Lohan Mantis Boxing. Why – and when – was th name changed from Lohan Tong Long Kuen into Chat Sing Tong Long Kuen? Was it to intent to make the style appear more philosophically? And, what are then the typical Seven Star signs in comparison with the other branches………..
As described in the thread “In the Beginning”, two sections were clear: ”Lo Han Moon and Wei To Moon. Lo Han is heavily drowned in Southern Martial Arts, which is easy to remember. Looking to the name, I can see the principles and methods more clear. When I look to Hong Kong seven star I can see the Lohan clear, and wonder why Chat Sing…..
Please interpret this letter not as offensive.
Kind regards,
Evert………………”<br>
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