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Post by Eric Ling on Mar 6, 2005 21:59:40 GMT -5
My self-imposed rule of not talking YKM still stands. This is a re-post – the original was too fuzzy for any meaningful discussion. So I am allowing myself a bit of slack here... My original motivation of posting this YKM form is to show how Hakka and Fukien forms are in many ways comparable. Personally, my theory is that Hakka is the bridge between Fukien and Canton. I spent time looking for clues in Hakka forms. Evert and I are still on this track but we are not talking about this openly anymore. Well folks, take a good look at this form and tell me if I am wrong – it does look Fukien right?
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Post by Firehawk on Mar 7, 2005 2:36:59 GMT -5
Hi Eric that form does look like Fukien forms , so does alot of the Southern mantis forms look like they could be Fukien forms so does most Pak Mai , and Lung Ying look like they are Fukien forms . and Wing Chun to looks like Fukien forms .
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Post by feihung on Mar 7, 2005 3:09:24 GMT -5
if you ask me, it looks like sup luk dung from lung ying. to me most hakka styles carry that similar look though
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Post by mantis1 on Mar 7, 2005 8:44:16 GMT -5
My experience comes from SPM background and those clips dont resemble anything we train the stance is too long a low and we have no chambering from the waist... interesting pics though.
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Post by TenTigers on Mar 7, 2005 10:17:10 GMT -5
It could be Hung Kuen. Except for the opening moves, many of those movements are right out of Moi-Fa Kuen. Some teachers have different openings, and put their own stamp on their forms as well. (and the winner is....?)
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Post by meltdawn on Mar 7, 2005 12:23:48 GMT -5
some of the hands look like dragon, but the lower back is not flat, the back hip is locked, there's no tun-toh and the chambered fist belies yuan bin foh.
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Marc
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Post by Marc on Mar 7, 2005 15:42:24 GMT -5
My teacher Jeng Hsing Peng, once told me that all CMA have trademarks and once you know these trademarks you know where the forms really come from.
In this sequence above, moves 7 & 8 are definately what I would recognize as Fukien Trademarks but the rest is for me a guess. I do agree with Ten Tigers that the form is similar to Cantonese MuiFa Kuen, especially moves 19 & 20, but only in solo form. If applications for both sets could be seen, we may also come to agree that they are totally different.
Mr. Ling I have seen Hakka systems and find them closer to Fukien systems than Cantonese but my exposure has been limited to variations of Mantis and I- Liq Kuen. I feel the Jury is still out on whether Bak Mei and Lung Ying are Hakka or a combination art like the sequence above.
Marc
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Marc
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Post by Marc on Mar 7, 2005 16:35:45 GMT -5
For Comparisons: Mantis and I Liq Kuen Hakka Styles use Phoenix as basic fist and also Perimeter Guard inviting straight line attacks and and of course Beggar Hands and
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Marc
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Post by Marc on Mar 7, 2005 16:54:08 GMT -5
Now I also think Cantonese and Fukien styles are close, just look at these: Yee's Cantonese Hung Ga and Lee Family Fukien White Crane Interesting Isnt It?
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Post by Eric Ling on Mar 7, 2005 18:34:32 GMT -5
Well Robert mentioned that SPM, Lung Yi and Wing Chun look "Fukien". I got to go with him on that. Got here :- 1) 3 typical SPM techniques. And yes I have seen these done many times here in SE Asia by many Hakka players and they really do remind me of Fukien, in this case Fukien White Crane. 2) A deflecting move from Yuen Kay San Wing Chun. This is a technique used over and over in arts like Ngo Chor, Tai Chor, White Crane and Siao Lim. In my Ancestral Crane, a follow through would be :- Continue the left hand with a single knuckle and a right palm edge to opponent's face, both hands using short jin. This is a 2 hands strike movement. This technique looks a little like Hakka opening salute....
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Fatman
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Post by Fatman on Mar 7, 2005 18:42:09 GMT -5
The first nine moves look vaguely similar to the NCK opening bow. The subsequent moves look more like lohan. The pre-dominant use of the forward stance is not typical of southern arts is it?
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Post by Eric Ling on Mar 7, 2005 18:44:36 GMT -5
The first nine moves look vaguely similar to the NCK opening bow. The subsequent moves look more like lohan. The pre-dominant use of the forward stance is not typical of southern arts is it? Good Good, So I am not drunk afterall. I did think that the form looks a little NCK and in fact a little Tai Chor....
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Post by Eric Ling on Mar 7, 2005 19:44:50 GMT -5
Okay, Let's look from the other end of the tunnel:- These are 4 typical movements used in "Swallowing,Spitting, Floating and Sinking" in Fukien Kung Fu. In this case we got a NCK Sifu demonstrating from the Tai Chor component of NCK. Hakka players, what do you see ?
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Fatman
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Post by Fatman on Mar 7, 2005 19:47:46 GMT -5
Good Good, So I am not drunk afterall. I did think that the form looks a little NCK and in fact a little Tai Chor.... Now that you mention it, yes it does appear to have a lot of the NCK Tai Chor elements in it.
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Post by Eric Ling on Mar 7, 2005 21:29:49 GMT -5
Okay, a write-up on Pak Mei Tun Tu or Swallowing and Spitting. Maybe it is just me but I really think both Fukien and Hakka got the same story here. Now if only some Karate folks start telling me their "spitting/swallowing" story.............
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