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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 3, 2004 7:47:37 GMT -5
Hi everyone, Like to talk about something that is not often spoke about these day in traditional Kung Fu. That is:- “Male – left, female – right”. Did your teachers talk about this? Males knot their sashes on the left and females on the right. The Sifu wear the knot in the centre. In Fuzhou Ancestral Crane, the males are supposed to salute by placing the left leg in front. However, the original is done with the right in front because the creator was female. Chas, now you understand why I salute differently at times – because I was taught both versions. I was told, I am not 100% sure, that certain Wing Chun streams observe this also. Take “Siu Nim Tao”, a male player starts with the left side techniques and the same form would be started on the right by a female player. Can anyone comment on this ?  |
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Post by pitbull on Nov 3, 2004 8:09:34 GMT -5
we do the sash arrangement thing...but not the salute...the cantonese are more keen and richer among these things
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 3, 2004 8:28:43 GMT -5
According to the Yin Yang philosophy, the choice of your description sounds strange. Right is yang and the qi side, strength - power - kill - animalistic. Left side is female side, creative, pliable. Men is linked with power, strength.........
Hakka styles - such as Pak mei pai - is about Sat or Sha, meaning to kill. I am not sure if you saw Pak Mei play before? In their ideas you recognize the art of killing. Hung Kuen is classified as a hard and tough style, but in my experience - and I practiced it very intensively - the Pak Mei is really the killing one.
As you will see on the attachments that Eric will paste, we always did have it on our right side. Lam Sai Wing had it in the middle. I heared that this was out of functionality, because on the left and right side creates problems in weapon performances and punches from the hips. But I could be wrong.
On an old photo I noticed that my late Sigung had it on the left, so I am stucked......
Finally, I wear it on the right side, always. My pak mei sifu raised me and his wisdom and knowledge I still carry with me. In a way I stick with this, till my death.......
Looking forward to other replies.
Oh yes, I have footages (from Taiwan) of a women style of Boxing. Very rare and unique, what I have read and heard. This style was taught by a male to females. In Taipei parc.
Warm regards,
Evert
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 3, 2004 8:32:04 GMT -5
Errrh, pictures from Evert but with no message. So I am ASSUMING they are for forum viewing. Anyway, finger on "DELETE" key just in case....... ;D ;D ;D   |
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 3, 2004 8:40:42 GMT -5
Hey Evert,
Pit is right. This left and right thingy is more a Cantonese thing.
But in my Crane, my Sifu was very strict about this. Which is unique in Fukien/Fuzhou circle. Most of my friends do both depending more on school's custom rather than anything else.
But again, a lot of Cantonese styles folks I know keep to the male-left convention. Can you verify ?
I think there must be a reason for this.
Even in one of the early days Liu brothers' movies featuring Hung Gar, this was mentioned.
You know the Gordon Liu's family - can't remember the name of that movie now.
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 3, 2004 8:49:09 GMT -5
Hey Evert,
A off-side question about the photo; is that a "iron ruler" you got in your right hand?
Rare combo - iron rule and shield.
How many "iron ruler" forms do you know?
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 3, 2004 8:55:31 GMT -5
Eric,
Indeed it is an Iron ruler. We didn't do solo forms with it, only partnersets. Such as the spear against the Iron rulers, and the Tongpai and Iron Ruler against the kwando.
In Nam Siu lam Hung Ga Kuen, we practice the Tong pai and the Do or Ji Mo Do (butterfly knives).
I guess that the Iron Rulers are from the Wanderers school. Chong Lee Chuang had relations with that particular Society.............
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 3, 2004 9:05:11 GMT -5
Evert,
Tit Cheok or iron ruler can be found in almost all Fukien/Fuzhou styles.
Tai Chor, for instance, has very developed Tit Cheok techniques.
Used in very creative manners not done in most non-Chinese styles.
This is also a very big weapon with Taiwanese who are mainly of Fukien descent.
Some Silat players around here also do this but more in the Japanese/Okinawan style , the flipping , thrusting etc......
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 3, 2004 9:41:55 GMT -5
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Post by Seeker on Nov 3, 2004 11:04:34 GMT -5
According to the Yin Yang philosophy, the choice of your description sounds strange. Right is yang and the qi side, strength - power - kill - animalistic. Left side is female side, creative, pliable. Men is linked with power, strength......... Seems strange - perhaps. Until you consider that the left side of the body is controlled by the right side of the brain, and vice versa.... The sash-side thinge works in my Wing Chun branch this way, but we do not alter the salutation. In theory, having males and females start Sil Lum Tao differently makes sense, but in practice (in my family) we all start on the left. Doing the same stuff on both left and right in the forms and in drills is a big thing in my Wing Chun family. The reason given to us by sifus and seniors is that Wing Chun as a system places a high value on ambidexterity. |
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Post by pitbull on Nov 3, 2004 18:25:23 GMT -5
LOL i think this is why many women are SHREWS! hehehe
actually we all tie our knot on the right except for the women...masters tie theirs on the ight as well...not in the center. this is what i observed on our group though
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 4, 2004 4:39:29 GMT -5
Hi everyone, Like to talk about something that is not often spoke about these day in traditional Kung Fu. That is:- “Male – left, female – right”. Did your teachers talk about this? Males knot their sashes on the left and females on the right. The Sifu wear the knot in the centre. In Fuzhou Ancestral Crane, the males are supposed to salute by placing the left leg in front. However, the original is done with the right in front because the creator was female. Chas, now you understand why I salute differently at times – because I was taught both versions. I was told, I am not 100% sure, that certain Wing Chun streams observe this also. Take “Siu Nim Tao”, a male player starts with the left side techniques and the same form would be started on the right by a female player. Can anyone comment on this ? Eric ni hao I think this related to the Yin Yang theory. Yin and Yang are two major Qi/Chi/Ki energy forces. In other words, Qi energy can be divided into Yin and Yang. They interact with each other. They are opposite, but interdependent with each other. One cannot exist without the existence of the other. Yang governs Heaven's Qi, Yin governs Earth's Qi; Yang rules men's Qi, Yin governs women's Qi. Yang is right and Yin is left. Yin represents the feminine side and Yang represents the masculine side. Cheers.  |
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Post by MightBHooked on Nov 4, 2004 11:37:17 GMT -5
I was going to start this as a new thread and then read Eric's thread.
Can someone explain the reasons behind the LEFT or LEFT SIDE? I'm not sure about CKF forms but most of our kata [Okinawan] start to the left side with a left block.
Also salutations such as: left open hand covering the right fist; the left open hand covering the right open hand, etc.
From my experience I've learned and been told that, the left is the 'peaceful side' hence, (the defensive side) and the right the 'aggressive side', (the offensive side), etc.
...Yin-Yang / In-Yo; good-bad; strong-weak; male-female...
Can someone expound on this from a deeper meaning or is there one? Has anyone ever heard of this (above)?
I have always wanted to learn more about this and from time to time, I get asked this question. So I wanted to know if there is a deeper meaning behind this.
Looking forward to everyone's thoughts on this, including members with a karate background.
Kind Regards,
Larry
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 5, 2004 3:33:40 GMT -5
I was going to start this as a new thread and then read Eric's thread. Can someone explain the reasons behind the LEFT or LEFT SIDE? I'm not sure about CKF forms but most of our kata [Okinawan] start to the left side with a left block. Also salutations such as: left open hand covering the right fist; the left open hand covering the right open hand, etc. From my experience I've learned and been told that, the left is the 'peaceful side' hence, (the defensive side) and the right the 'aggressive side', (the offensive side), etc. ...Yin-Yang / In-Yo; good-bad; strong-weak; male-female... Can someone expound on this from a deeper meaning or is there one? Has anyone ever heard of this (above)? I have always wanted to learn more about this and from time to time, I get asked this question. So I wanted to know if there is a deeper meaning behind this. Looking forward to everyone's thoughts on this, including members with a karate background. Kind Regards, Larry Larry ni hao Yang is Active and Yin is Passive. Yang is Right and Yin is Left. Yang is daytime and Yin is nighttime. Yang is the Sun and Yin is the Moon, Yang is Dragon and Yin is Tiger, Yang is Heaven and Yin is Earth, Yang is Male and Yin is Female, etc,etc. Cheers. |
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 5, 2004 4:52:22 GMT -5
Yin yang philosophy a a model for a momentum, and can not be seen as absolute. It depends strongly with the material/ substance you like to compare with. One moment it could be yang and comparing it with a different thing, it could be Yin.
Changing is the key in this story, constantly changing. No absolute material/ conclusion. Yin and yang can't be seperated.
Right arm is Yang. A specific punch with the right fist is known as Black Tiger Steals the Hard. A punch with the left fist is known as green Dragon Steals the Heart. These are simple examples but this is not so.
Okay, to make it more complexx for you:
According to Suhana, right arm = yang. From the right arm, inner side = Yin, Dorsal side is yang. Elbow = Yin, fingers are Yang. Fist is Yin, palm is yang. Thumb is Yin, pinky is Yang. Tiger Fist is Yin, Panther fist is yang. Ginger fist is Yin, Pantehrfist is yang. Tigerclaw is Yin, Dragon Claw is yang. Snapping kick is Yang, heart penetrating palm is Yin....
And you can go on an on.
I like to end with a statement that - depending upon the examples you like to compare, classification can be changed. Therefore it is better not to use Black/ white examples but start to say that everything have a grey scale. Some are a bit lighter other more dark.
When we are doing both the technique "Black Tiger Steals the heart", one of us will get the result: Yours is more Yang then his....
For me it is more important to understand the nature of Chinese names. Black Tiger or White Tiger. green Dragon or Golden Dragon, White Snake. What is the intention that connect with the Cheng Wu?
Warm regards,
Evert.
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