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Post by Evert on Oct 12, 2004 3:10:18 GMT -5
Currently at work, and not able to login with Nataraya, therefor a different approach. To start with this theme I like to direct for basics to an old homepage [1996] of me: hunggakuen.com/schools/wei_to_arnhem/medicine/I start working on this text and information because my student Justin [San Diego] was especially interested in this art. Our lineage - as told in the biography of my grandmasters, are full of healers. Up to Justin who is setting up a private clinic in San Diego now. I hope that this thread will lead to interaction so that you all will be able to make your own Jiu (Jow). it is cheaper and MUCH better, then buying it. Eventual forbidden ingredients can be settled or we can make references how to get this. Eric, is it possible to insert MingLiu fonts? It should be much easier integrating Chinese in it so that you can make a print and visit the pharmacy with the recipes. The beauty of this art is that the BEST should be made for personal purposes. There is NO best wine, not one!! Many companies tend to be the best, but as you might imagine, personal weaknesses should be balanced. In a Die Da formula I/ we can do that. If you only can give me some time to ask. PM is then the way to do that. And for the oldies, after so many years of marriage you all should have integrated a "crisesroom" in your house. As you all can imagine, a frequently stayed area after the use of. From home I will collect some more homepages and addresses to support you guys with LOADS of information. Kind regards, Evert.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 12, 2004 7:26:56 GMT -5
Hi Evert,
The fonts thingy - no can do.
I tried to post some Chinese text from my old site, just don't work.
I got some Whooping Crane poems that I like to share.
The only way, for now, is for you to scan and then email me as a jpg file.
Then I would post it for you here.
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Post by pitbull on Oct 12, 2004 18:34:28 GMT -5
thanks for all the info! it will be a good read later when my boss isnt around! thanks again!
with foreigners like evert,i think kungfu is in safe person who keep it...
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 13, 2004 19:48:41 GMT -5
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Post by pitbull on Oct 13, 2004 19:55:34 GMT -5
oh my goodness!!! thats some bad injury!!! what happened to that man!?
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 13, 2004 20:04:11 GMT -5
This is the second mail from Evert. There are thousands of recipes/ wines and poultices, you can make. I decided to add two photo's of a common 'Iron Sand Palm' recipes. The ingredients are NOT specific for Hand/ arms and with an addition/ change of three herbs, you can create a more general Die Da Wine. The first thing the reader notice is the [Eagle] claws and snake. Rather common ingredients in Iron Palm formula's. In formula's you will find descriptions as Tiger Bones back, but in practice they are Dog/ pig bones. The same with Eagle Claws, they are Chicken Feet but raised in amount. Adding these ingredients not always have a pure medical reason, but also symbolism and imagination play an important role in this all. Enjoy the pictures and feel free to launch questions. Now, boys and girls, questions are to be directed at that Shaolin healer disguised as a Viking. Not at me.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 14, 2004 8:00:48 GMT -5
Casus:
This man fall out of his wheelchair. Bones of Multiple Sclerose patients are weaker (softer) and he easily broke his upper arm bone - near the shoulder joint - at four places. He was living alone and therefore became a patient of our rehabilitation centre. The weird thing of it all was that his bone damage was very serious, but due to his minimal power, decided not to give a cast. And, he was given permission to use that arm during wheelchair driving. This sometimes is the policy to do with elder people too. With care he was wheeling around, and I treat him twice a day with traction and Die Da.
The pictures were not made at perfect times. What you saw on the photo's was the result after 5 days of Die Da treatment. In the beginning the marks on his arms were rather black. After 10 - 18 days there was only a slight yellow colour there. After 4 weeks the bone was strong enough again and he could go home.
The first thing you see is that the bruise lay much deeper then the broken bone area. The swelling and blood cloths creates stagnation, meaning a delay in getting the callus (from the region) for melting the fractures together. Therefore it is important to start directly - within the first 24 hours with a cold quality of poultice and Hit wine. After ten days you start with s lightly more warmed Jiu, and after 14 -20 days you start with a warm nature quality of wine. By the way the nature is found in the kind of herb this can be: Hot, warm, neutral and cooling. Very important to know because you can use it in one of the three stages of trauma.
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Post by konghan on Oct 14, 2004 8:17:45 GMT -5
It will be very painful to try to reallign his broken arm specially if it is broken into 4 places without anesthesia or hospitalisation.
So how do you do it Eric, do you try to realign the broken bones first then put braces to keep them in place before applying herbs & prescribing some internal medicine for blood clot prevention as well as for bone regenaration?
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 14, 2004 8:44:13 GMT -5
Believe it or not, nothing was done. The pain sensations gave the restriction in action. Also he lived in the clinique, meaning that he got help with dressing, washing. All the floors are straight, so driving his wheelchair was much easier then outside and on tapestry.
His head of the humerus was broken in four parts, and he got permission to drive his own wheelchair. I found this rather strange, but it worked.
This casus is not standard, but worth to mention. Four times a year I see patients who have an Extrenal Fixation due to awfull fracturized bones. But in this case the diagnose "Multiple Sclerose" was the reason not to immobilize the extremity.
Anesthesia is a bad thing because it gives you incorrect information. If your painscore is 70%, you won't get painkillers. maybe at night, but the policy is no painkillers at all.
Pain is emotion, and with behaviour therapy, we learn the patient techniques how to control it.
Yes, indeed....it is all about martial arts. I am so lucky to practice the arts - that I was taught - for 16 hours a day. At the intensive care unit I work, I am able to practice specific heikung and focus exercises (visulaisation). In fact they are offshoots/ variations of our Southern Martial Arts. But it is all their. Chinese medicine and herbology were part of our family lineage. The art as handed down through the generations are wholistic of nature, and surely not only about the "External" enemy. It is the task of all of us, to preserve the art as past in your branch. I mean the whole spectrum of skills, and not only breaking the 'coconut' thing.
You guys received centuries of wisdom, don't let it flow...
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 15, 2004 10:18:54 GMT -5
The attached formula is a nice warming and strengthening formula that quickens the blood and strengthens the bones and sinews. In laymans terms it improves circulation and strengthens the tissues of the hands. It is named as an iron palm formula, but in fact covers more of a general Die Da formula. Studying the nature of the formula you will see that it contains a nice balance of herbs that treat acute and chronic pain, promote healing, disperse swelling, warm the channels and strengthen the defensive qi (wei qi), and protect the body from environmental/climatic damage during and after training.
I noticed that not all the ingredients are really mentioned in this formula, which is – I am afraid – a rather common thing. Sometimes the ingredients are secret, and bought with several pharmacies, to keep the formula secret. Another aspect is that there are several different names of herbs. Most of them are known, and can be found. Frequently linked with the area (province), during translations we find out that not always the whole name is mentioned. At the end the formula is analysed. Together with my student we manage to create a huge database of formulas covering the whole range of Hit medicine. But still a few thousands of recipes needed to translate and integrate in the database.
If you need help with a particular ingredient, feel free to send me the characters and I will write a description about the nature and goals of that particular herb. The original formula called for on pair of eagle claws, Ying Zhao, and one Bungarus snake [Jin Huan She]. One pair of eagle claws can be replaced with 10 pair of chicken claws and 24 grams of dried ginger (Gan Jiang). The snake is a strong pain killer and helps protect the body from wind damage. It should be available at most Chinese herbal pharmacies. It is advised to soak the above herbs in seven litres of Shuang Hua Jiu for three months before using. We would advise to use Vodka, this is better then the double cooked rice wine. My experience with the rice wine is not that good. Also it is a fact that the higher percentage of alcohol extract more agencies then a lower percentage. Finally, if you look to the pictures – of the raw herbs – then you might recognize the baskets. We steam the Herbs for 20 minutes [not all of them] so that the pores of the ingredients are open. Then it is easier for the alcohol to absorb agencies.
Continued…………..
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 19, 2004 7:06:02 GMT -5
Some exotic ingredients:
· Bai Hua She [Agkistrodon seu Bungarus] : The snake dispels Wind; Drain Damp; Move Qi; Crack Qi; Pain Killing; This substance can be used in treating a wide variety of severe wind disorders.
· Hu Gu [Os Tigris]:Dispel Cold; Dispel Wind; Drain Damp; Relax the Sinews; Anti-Inflamatory; Pain Killing; Hu Gu is used to relieve stiffness and migratory pain in the joints caused by wind-damp Bi. It also strengthens the sinews and bones and disperses wind-cold from the lower Jiao (low back and knees).In modern times real tiger bone is not available and the most common substitute is Os Bovis (cow or water buffalo bone).
· Tu Bie Chong: [Eupolyphaga seu Opisthoplatia].Invigorate Blood; Break Blood Stasis; Relax the Sinews; Pain Killing; Promote Healing/Tissue Generation; This is a wingless thingyroach. Eupolyphaga has a very strong influence on the Blood and is used to treat severe Blood stasis, often when the patient cannot tolerate palpation in the area.. It breaks up Blood stasis while simultaneously stimulating circulation to help clear extravasated Blood. It also relaxes the sinews, alleviates pain, and helps promote healing and clears Heat. It is a rather common ingredient in Die Da Ke.
· Ying Zhao: [Eagle Claws}.Dispel Cold; Dispel Wind; Invigorate Blood; Nourish Blood & Yin; Unblock the Channels/Collaterals; Relax the Sinews; Reduce Swelling; Promote Healing/Tissue Generation; Ying Zhao are the claws of an eagle. In modern times chicken feet, Ji Zhao Le, are used as a subsitute at a ratio of 10 pair of chicken feet to one pair of eagle claws. Chicken claws are not as warm as eagle claws and so extra warming ingredients like Gan Jiang should be added to balance the formula. Chicken feet and eagle claws both dispel wind-damp-cold and nourish the sinews and blood. The feet of birds consist of primarily sinew and bone and so are thought to nourish these parts of the body. They are primarily used internally to supplement the body and promote recovery of trauma to the sinews and bones.
· Zi Ran Tong: [Pyritum]. Move Qi; Break Blood Stasis; Reduce Swelling; Pain Killing; Promote Healing/Tissue Generation; Zi Ran Tong is a wonderful medicinal for treating serious trauma cases. It is most often used for treating injuries to the bones such as fractures. Zi Ran Tong quickens the blood, breaks blood stasis, and promotes the mending of bones. It can be used both internally and externally for this purpose. It is often prepared with vinegar to facilitate extraction of its healing constituents. Because of Zi Ran Tong's neutral temperature and strong affinity with the bones it can be used to treat all stages of injuries to the bones which are complicated with blood stasis.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 19, 2004 7:11:06 GMT -5
Dear practitioners, this will be the last addition from my personal database. From now on I will wait for specific questions, and will answer them as good as possible. This thread was in first instance to trigger the reader to study Hit medicine. Martial arts is an wholistic art, and we should do our best to preserve all the information as given to us by our ancestors.
Herbs and Body Area/Tissue Level:
Bai Hua She: Sinews/Tendons, Hu Gu: Back, Legs, Knees, Joints, Sinews/Tendons, Bone, Tu Bie Chong: Sinews/Tendons, Bone, Ying Zhao: Joints, Sinews/Tendons, Bone, Zi Ran Tong: Sinews/Tendons, Bone
Herbs and Preparation Notes:
Bai Hua She: 3-10g in decoctions; 1-1.5g as a powder. Inner organs should be removed. Good quality should be completely intact. Agkistrodon should be thick with a clear pattern. Bungarus should have pale yellow meat and be lustrous and relatively small, as infant snakes are used.
Hu Gu: Generally used in medicinal wines, as a powder, or in pills. Normally toasted in oil or vinegar before use. Os Leopardis can be used as a substitute although it not as potent. The most common substitute available in the US is Os Bovis (buffalo or cow bone).Good quality is heavy, firm, and yellowish white. Note that bones of a poisoned tiger can turn black. These should never be used medicinally.
Tu Bie Chong: Dry-Frying after soaking in vinegar will give a stronger affect. Good quality is whole.
Ying Zhao: cook before.
Zi Ran Tong: Should first be cooked for at least a half-hour in decoctions, or ground and taken directly in powder or pill form with a dosage of 0.3-0.6 g. Sprinkle with vinegar and allow a green rust to form seven times to enhance its properties. Good quality is golden yellow in color, heavy, and lustrous.
Warm regards,
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Post by konghan on Oct 19, 2004 14:34:51 GMT -5
Nataraya, your posting are very informative & valuable & I do agree 101% that healing is part of kung fu.
Do you think that if I would present those ingredients written & spell as english to a chinese herbal store they would understand it?.
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Post by Evert on Oct 20, 2004 2:35:10 GMT -5
Konghan,
That’s why I did attached a recipes too. Most Chinese pharmacies do not recognize the Latin names or popular names. Although for most it should be part of their education, they read mainly Characters. And even then…………
I was in London and took the opportunity to buy some Herbs in Soho. So I enter a pharmacy and pointed out – saying the name in Cantonese – of the ingredients that I want. Some I got, some not. So I spoke out the name again, and they were looking at me very strange, as if I were an idiot. Of course I knew that they were special ingredients, but still just give me the material. When he kept on neglecting my words, I wrote it down on paper in Chinese and more they thought I was evil. Suddenly he and his wife start talking intensively, but no way they were planning to give me the ingredient, without motivation. So I wave, and went to another pharmacy. There I did order the same ingredients. The pharmacist now said to me, that these herbs were dangerous. I told him I know that, and explained to him the way I will process that herb. He was nodding, but looks very strange that a White man knew about ingredients. He was looking around and quickly packed the material, and again saying “Very dangerous”. Sometimes you need to talk a lot to get the good material.
In San Diego, we did visit a huge pharmacy. My student did work for a long time in a pharmacy preparing herbs. I remember that he was selecting the best ingredients. Man, you should have seen the face of the pharmacist. He asked, what are you doing. Justin said, I only want to have the good ones, hahahahaha.
In our database, we integrate Chinese and finally the print will be a complete Chinese paper asking for the correct amounts. There are pharmacies online where you can order ingredients. An acceptable way of getting the ingredients. But the best thing is to have a recipes in Chinese.
If someone is having problems in translating an ingredient, or knowing what it is meant for, feel free to ask me. I will help you then..
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 7, 2004 16:14:27 GMT -5
An interesting article for those who like to study...
part 1: **************
Common herbs for Trauma and a Rx for Trauma Wine by Robert Chu, L.Ac.
(Originally featured in California Journal of Oriental Medicine, Fall 2001)
What led me to a study of TCM was a lifelong practice of martial arts. In martial arts, aside from the artistic perfection of strikes, kicks, joint locking, throwing and ground fighting, the health giving benefits of opening up the channels and collaterals for qi flow, learning meditation to calm the mind, we specialize in trauma, both healing and inflicting. My sifu said, "it's easy learn how to injure someone, but is difficult to learn how to heal someone." How correct he was. A punch to Ren 17 can have devastating effects, a kick to UB 40 can bring an attacker to his knees in practice. As a consequence, in order to survive the training, many martial arts teachers specialize in die da shang ke - literally "fall and strike traumatology", which are overlapped by TCM's wai ke (External diseases) and gu shang ke (Orthopedics and Traumatology). I was fortunate to be able to study the rudiments of die da shang ke under my Wing Chun sifu, Kwan Jong Yuen and my Hung Ga sifu, Yee Chi Wai. Through the years I also met other famous martial artists and TCM doctors like Kenny Gong, Lui Yon Sang, Chan Tai Shan and others. My study of martial arts was interspersed with the study of traditional formulas for traumatology, including powders, wines, pastes, decoctions and pills, their applications, modifications and processing. Many martial artists are also known for their specialty in tui na, as basic exercises to develop the body in the tui na like Shaolin neigong (Internal training) or yi jin jing (Sinew Changing Classic) are part of the traditional martial arts. These exercises develop the limbs so that a martial artist trained in tui na can produce better results and a martial artist would probably know the body better than a non martial artist in movement and cause of injury.
In this article, I would like to introduce how to create a basic die da jiu (fall or strike wine) which can be used as a topical liniment for common contusions and bruises. Here is a list of herbs you will need:
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