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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 29, 2005 10:00:21 GMT -5
Hi folks, Still on the road but found a nice little cybercafe to log on. Okay I see a new number of members but still no matching numbers of bios. Boys, boys, why is it so difficult to tell us a little about yourselves? Promise I won't bite if you do....... Okay back to business:- The 3 way of dealing with bridges that I mentioned in an earlier thread:- 1) avoid 2) deflect 3) break I do a tremendous amount of breaking in my White Crane and I know this is also a highly developed skill set in Hakka boxing like Lung Ying, Pak Mei and SPK. In Lung Ying//PakMei, you folks do "Lung Ying Mor Kiu" or "Dragon Shape Scraping Bridge" and viewing the form I do detect many techniques which suggest breaking principle at work. Like to hear more from all you Hakka high hands. Be kind if I saying anything that is inaccurate pertaining to Hakka. I am Fukien/Fuzhou.....
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Hungfist
Full Member
...gotta launder my Karma.
Posts: 120
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Post by Hungfist on Jan 29, 2005 10:13:47 GMT -5
Hi folks, Still on the road but found a nice little cybercafe to log on. Okay I see a new number of members but still no matching numbers of bios. Boys, boys, why is it so difficult to tell us a little about yourselves? Promise I won't bite if you do....... Okay but to business, The 3 way of dealing with bridges that I mentioned in an earlier thread:- 1) avoid 2) deflect 3) break I do a tremendous amount of breaking in my White Crane and I know this is also a highly developed skill set in Hakka boxing like Lung Ying, Pak Mei and SPK. In Lung Ying//PakMei, you folks do "Lung Ying Mor Kiu" or "Dragon Shape Slicing Bridge" and viewing the form I do detect many techniques which suggest breaking principle at work. Like to hear more from all you Hakka high hands. Be kind if I saying anything that is inaccurate pertaining to Hakka. I am Fukien/Fuzhou..... How would deception fit into this? Feinting is quite the effective technique against some stylists. Feinting to the groin almost always draws a block or attempted block - as most men protect the area at all costs - if they commit there are trapping hands techniques that is effective with a followup to the upper body. Perhaps this should be its own thread.
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 29, 2005 10:21:19 GMT -5
How would deception fit into this? Feinting is quite the effective technique against some stylists. Feinting to the groin almost always draws a block or attempted block - as most men protect the area at all costs - if they commit there are trapping hands techniques that is effective with a followup to the upper body. Perhaps this should be its own thread. Hi hungfist, You are right. You are talking drawing or seeking bridge. Should be in another thread. What you do after you "draw out the bridge" is more the scope here. If you deflect/trap then it falls into #2 of dealing with bridges. And folks, bridge is not limited to hands only..........
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 29, 2005 22:03:01 GMT -5
Hi folks,
Still no contributions from Hakka players?
I was looking through a Lung Ying book couple of weeks back and came across phrases like :-
destroying bridge neutralizing bridge forcing bridge
in the names of your forms.
Someone care to share more info?
Got some articles on SPM methods of striking bridge using the one knuckle also.
Might be generalizing here, but it would appear to me that "bridge breaking" is more a Fukien/Hakka thing.
Comments?
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Post by JookLum on Jan 29, 2005 23:49:43 GMT -5
Hello Eric! I have posted a short bio in the introduce yourself section. Would you mind posting either the spm articles you mentioned or the pictures? It would be interesting to post about them.
Thank you
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 30, 2005 4:44:24 GMT -5
Hello Eric! I have posted a short bio in the introduce yourself section. Would you mind posting either the spm articles you mentioned or the pictures? It would be interesting to post about them. Thank you Hi Bamboo Forest, No problem. Still on the road - will be for the next couple of days. Do it when I am back in Kuching. Thanks.
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Post by JookLum on Jan 31, 2005 0:28:23 GMT -5
Thank you Eric! I appreciate it and look forward to seeing them.
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 31, 2005 12:16:59 GMT -5
Hmmm, very interesting. No contributions here, why? Bridge breaking must be essential in many Hakka / Fukien styles Southern CKF. “Why block when you can break” is the fundamental concept that many Southern CKF is built upon. We do a form of “push-hand” like drill in Fuzhou Crane called “Lei Kung Shou” or “Thunder Hands”. The ideal is to keep hitting partner’s incoming hands at “soft” spots. This hitting comes in many different forms and “scraping” is highly featured. I think I’ve seen some Hakka Praying Mantis folks do something akin. I am almost certain that “Pak Mei” amd “Lung Ying” do some parallels. Tell me, how do you “mor kiu”? Thanks.
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CEB
Junior Member
Old Judo Player
Posts: 71
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Post by CEB on Jan 31, 2005 13:30:41 GMT -5
FWIW, We do a lot of this but we are not kung fu. We do not target the hands in motion but we will do things against static hands.
Our targets against incoming (moving) bridge hands are on the arms. Favorite targets of mine are cutting down into the golgi tendons around the elbow or striking upward into the tricep from underneath.
Please remember I am just an old Judo player. I don't know much kung fu.
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Post by narval on Jan 31, 2005 14:18:34 GMT -5
Eric, here is something: so sao right hand hooks/deflects - left forearm goes agaisnt opponent's front arm (elbow zone) in forward motion with lots of waist action behind it. N
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 31, 2005 22:49:30 GMT -5
Thanks for your posts.
Okay, we got 2 bridge breaking descriptions that are not really what I am referring to.
In each case, you deflect first and then damage the bridge.
I am talking more about breaking without deflecting.
Like Hung Gar’s “Throwing Ball into the Waves”, you just swing upwards into an oncoming punch.
A variation of this very technique can be found in Whooping Crane’s 28 Steps – if you know where to look.
This techniques, in different shades, is also found in Filipino Boxing where they just uppercut into opponent’s arm or Hsing Yi’s Cannon Fist.
Another bridge breaking example without any deflecting is the “Golden Scissors Hand” found in some system.
Your two forearms just “scissor” anything coming in.
In Lama White Crane, they are very fond of “back fisting” into your stretched arm. If they get you at the outside of the elbow or bicep area, it could be debilitating.
I have seen some Karate folks using the “shoto uke” to break the forearm.
So I am looking for breaking without deflecting. In some cases, even without avoiding.
Take Shaolin Lohan’s “Beating Tiger” posture. You stand your ground and do a swinging hooking from one side of the body to the next.
You swing this into any punch coming in. Catch the outside of your opponent’s arm, you break the elbow.
Catch the inside; it becomes a hand trap to floor your opponent. You use the other hand to complete the trap.
Thank you.
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Post by JookLum on Feb 2, 2005 0:35:43 GMT -5
Hello everyone! Here is one break- Yin/Yang(Sun and Moon)hands- Usually performed on a straight punch with a vertical fist( but not always). Your first hand catches/controls at opponents wrist on top with a feeling hand block such as Ma Shu peformed palm down while other hand is positioned under opponents elbow in a palm up position. Then your first hand makes a downward movement with shock/ short power to control wrist, while second hand performs an upward(lifting hand) with shock/ short power in a palm up position.
This will break or dislocate the elbow depending the amount of power you choose to apply. Ma Shu is a block using the first part of the hand (the first part is from the tip of the fingers to about two inches below the crease of the wrist. It can be performed by a circling movement of the hand and/or elbow, it can be used in numerous ways with clockwise circle, counterclockwise circle or in a sliding motion forward or backward. It can also be performed with short sudden popping motion using shock/ short power to right, left and up and down.
It is a very versatile and deceptive counterhand. the above mentioned Ma Shu block can be sustituted with a crane beak/ hook hand, snake hand and many other similar blocks from any other style which follows similar guidelines in application to perform this break which isa really an adaptable break for universal use regardless of style.
I will post more breaks but first i just want to make sure this one makes sense to you guys before another is posted, my description may be vague so if you want a better description or have a question please feel free to ask. Thanks
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Post by Eric Ling on Feb 2, 2005 1:11:37 GMT -5
Hello everyone! Here is one break- Yin/Yang(Sun and Moon)hands- Usually performed on a straight punch with a vertical fist( but not always). Your first hand catches/controls at opponents wrist on top with a feeling hand block such as Ma Shu peformed palm down while other hand is positioned under opponents elbow in a palm up position. Then your first hand makes a downward movement with shock/ short power to control wrist, while second hand performs an upward(lifting hand) with shock/ short power in a palm up position. This will break or dislocate the elbow depending the amount of power you choose to apply. Ma Shu is a block using the first part of the hand (the first part is from the tip of the fingers to about two inches below the crease of the wrist. It can be performed by a circling movement of the hand and/or elbow, it can be used in numerous ways with clockwise circle, counterclockwise circle or in a sliding motion forward or backward. It can also be performed with short sudden popping motion using shock/ short power to right, left and up and down. It is a very versatile and deceptive counterhand. the above mentioned Ma Shu block can be sustituted with a crane beak/ hook hand, snake hand and many other similar blocks from any other style which follows similar guidelines in application to perform this break which isa really an adaptable break for universal use regardless of style. I will post more breaks but first i just want to make sure this one makes sense to you guys before another is posted, my description may be vague so if you want a better description or have a question please feel free to ask. Thanks Thank you JookLum, Excellent post. I have the same technique in White Crane. If I do a set of Ying/Yang palms, one going up and the other coming down in a whipping manner, I am doing a White Crane technique called “White Crane Playing Water”. The concept is exactly like yours. The up/down jin combo will break the elbow or the wrist depending on aiming. The palms can be substituted with crane hands but more in a sudden upwards popping manner and you have “White Crane Lifting Head”. I love this one. I will move slightly to avoid a upper gate attack and pop a crane head to the underside of the elbow region. And don’t worry about your post. We all speak kung Fu. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by essence on Feb 2, 2005 5:34:21 GMT -5
Good day everybody.
Do you remember the little discussion we had on the technique Soy Long Pow Choy, or Throwing Ball into the Wave (I believe it is in the Hung Gar Techniques thread).
A little poem was posted which made me even more curious regarding this technique. In it, the poem says to attack the joints, which is the key phrase, and since the attack is an upwards one, the joint, I assumed would be the elbow.
Recently, I gained more insight to this technique. Coming into the technique, a Gwa Choy (backfist) is used to clear and/or block an attack. This fist makes contact around the wrist area, and upon contact, you can, if you choose to, turn the fist around, trapping the opponent's bridge.
As you come from Sei Ping Ma into forward stance, the other hand rises in an upward strike aimed, as the poem says, at the joint. This is the method taught to me to smash the elbow using this technique.
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Nataraya on Feb 2, 2005 5:43:56 GMT -5
Tze Hou,
One correct interpretation of this skill. There are some variations, for instance from Lohan skill perspective, but overall you ar correct. Intercepting before and [eventual] 'destroying' are concepts you can use.
But do not stick to this particular skill and observe the variations. Gwa Chui becomes a claw, and change the upward motion in a slight diagonal technique. These skills are so close, and can be so effective. Pu Faat (foot pattern) and timing is then important. But in your previous post you already described the importancy of 'being aware'.
Kindest regards,
Evert.
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