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Post by Nataraya on Nov 18, 2004 10:34:41 GMT -5
Many schools, many teachers, many truths. I have no idea how your teacher teach you, many ways in climbing Tai Shan. I show you our path, this can be different then your path. Doesn't mind. Read it and let it go. maybe at a later time you remind these examples again. Maybe my words trigger you to ask. Don't be disappointed when my words are being denied. I don't care, every teacher/ branch walk their own path in spreading knowledge. Some received, some never received. Its not me to judge others.......
Daan Tji Kiu is from Fu Hoc Seung Ying Kuen. The Double arms (Seung) Tji Kiu is in GJFFK, forewards and sidewards.
The three extensions are done slowly, with emphasize on breathing and collecting. Once the gathering is complete, then the conflict can start (again).
The wrist is bend, which creates a higher tensed area, so a local stagnation exist now. Blood and qi are linked like mother and child, meaning that blood flow to the lowest area of resistance. In this case you see extension = inhaling = packing. The shoulder are pressed with tension downwards, in a small circular/ round action of the shoulder. Tip and root are tensed more now, in between relaxed. Here you will experience/ find the local Noi Lik.
Quote: “My focal point when I do this to breathe into the Dan Tien and concentrate tension in the bridge while trying to remain loose in the shoulder”.
Essence: I try to explain you one way of gathering energy. Your question was about the picture. Collecting and gathering can be done anywhere on the body. Leg, abdomen, head,…
It is a different quality of power then the rear leg Geng. In our branch we do a lot of whip power Bien Geng, then softness of all the nine chains, is of great importance. The shoulder is then one of them. I am trying to say that Packing/ Collecting (Chuk Geng/ Xu Jing )is the opposite of releasing (Fong).
Enjoy practice,
Evert.
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Hungfist
Full Member
...gotta launder my Karma.
Posts: 120
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Post by Hungfist on Nov 18, 2004 18:58:49 GMT -5
... in the last picture, what would the application of this technique be? Warmest regards, Tze Hou The last picture looks to me to be Lau Kiu which is Reserved Bridge and is used to evaluate the situation and to take an opponents anger and turn it against him as well as keeping a calm and clear mind so you see an opponents weaknesses. It also was a secret sign, once upon a time, to identify one's political and ideological beliefs.
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 18, 2004 19:32:24 GMT -5
It also was a secret sign, once upon a time, to identify one's political and ideological beliefs. Very good Hungfist! This is exactly what I was told by Hung Gar boxers from Canton who emigrated to Singapore. "Using 1 finger to determine my rivers and mountains" - a very proud statement from a very proud style. Deservingly so.
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Post by essence on Nov 18, 2004 19:59:30 GMT -5
Good day everybody.
Evert: I see what you mean now. Moves in the forms now take on another meaning for me. Maybe I will be able to find more meaning to the moves in my pursuit and practices.
Thank you for opening up my eyes.
Hungfist:
Sorry if I sound blunt and ignorant.
I know what Lau Kiu is, but sadly, I do not know how to apply it in the sense you have described. Would you assume this posture/bridge when squaring off? How would this bridge allow you to see an opponent's weakness?
I was always taught that to see an opponent's weakness you have to "test" his bridge, which means crossing hands. Is this what you meant?
Eric:
I didn't know this was the position assumed for the revealing of one's roots and alliances. I did know the Dan Tji Kiu carried political and cultural significance though.
Could you explain this in more detail for me? If it is of a sensitive nature, maybe wait till we meet.
Thank you one and all for helping me in my quest.
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 18, 2004 21:30:21 GMT -5
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Post by essence on Nov 18, 2004 21:37:45 GMT -5
Good day Eric and Evert.
Thank you for these wonderful pictures of Kong Chou's past.
Again, the pictures have triggered questions in me. The 3rd picture seems to me like the performer is doing an umbrella form?
Also, the last picture, the words are Sup Tji Kuen? Is this a Choy Lay Fut form? The only thing I know that comes close in Hung Gar is Sup Ying Kuen.
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Hungfist
Full Member
...gotta launder my Karma.
Posts: 120
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Post by Hungfist on Nov 18, 2004 23:46:02 GMT -5
Good day everybody. Hungfist: Sorry if I sound blunt and ignorant. I know what Lau Kiu is, but sadly, I do not know how to apply it in the sense you have described. Would you assume this posture/bridge when squaring off? How would this bridge allow you to see an opponent's weakness? I was always taught that to see an opponent's weakness you have to "test" his bridge, which means crossing hands. Is this what you meant? Thank you one and all for helping me in my quest. Warmest regards, Tze Hou I am not sure if its necessary to cross hands to test a bridge, what about feints? It can be about getting your opponent to commit and drop his guard-opening the way for your true attack. The Lau Kiu can also be used as a block, but I hesitate to use it because your finger is hanging 'out' there. In some sets its used as an eye gouge. In Fu Hok the Lau Kiu is used as a palm heel strike - in this application it is a heel to the chin. The term 'reserved bridge' is to look and listen and find the opportunity.
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Post by essence on Nov 19, 2004 0:27:51 GMT -5
I am not sure if its necessary to cross hands to test a bridge, what about feints? It can be about getting your opponent to commit and drop his guard-opening the way for your true attack. The Lau Kiu can also be used as a block, but I hesitate to use it because your finger is hanging 'out' there. In some sets its used as an eye gouge. In Fu Hok the Lau Kiu is used as a palm heel strike - in this application it is a heel to the chin. The term 'reserved bridge' is to look and listen and find the opportunity. Good day Hungfist. When you refer to "reserved bridge", do you mean to hold back yourself? From your description, I take it this means to wait and analyse before moving. With regards to the offense, I can see how the palm and bridge in this manner would assist in a quick gouging of the eye or a palm into the chin or nose, but have somehow, never thought of this application. Thank you for giving me this new perspective. Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 19, 2004 6:49:25 GMT -5
The material I have from this Kung Chou Gwoon are from different sources, so I think that they teach a broader curriculum, not only Hung Kuen. Ask 'Hung Fist', his lineage have adapted Choy Lee Fut skills too, certainly his Sigung Bucksam Kong. It fits in rather well, is my opinon.........
To continue a bit more about the combination, I can state that you will find hardly any pure Hung Kuen style, that is exactly what Eric was trying to say in one of his threads. Grandmaster Lam Yo have strong links in Pek Kwa but also have added Bung Bu (Northern Tang Lang). We have more systems in our curriculum, such as: Fa Kuen, Siu Lam Wing Chun Kuen, Yau Lung, Tit Sin Kuen,…<br> It is indeed an umbrella form, there are more schools play that weapon. It is seen in some schools of Choy Lee Fut but also Hung Kuen.
Quote: “I am not sure if its necessary to cross hands to test a bridge, what about feints?”<br> Exactly! Practitioners forget that Kiu Sau contains a huge part of non physical contact, which is part of the bridging skills to. How do I look, how do I move, what is my stance. What will my opponent do when I put of my jacket, or start to scream, or breaking a bottle? Still there is no physical bridge between us, but it will have CERTAINLY an input on his decision what to do. Then look at the environment I am moving in, which is part of the Bridging too. I feel much better when I am standing in a corner, with no people behind me. My opponent will act different when a circle of people are around him. All bridging skills, but not in the “touch”. One more: A boxer is turning circles around me, I can cut off/ split/ divide (Fen Kiu) his options.
Okay, what I am trying to say is the keywords hides a story/ philosophy with it. Each keyword can change of nature depending upon environment, opponent and myself. Suddenly that 12 Bridge hands covers a broad range of options a fighter can make use of……
Try to see in this context to look at Lau Kiu. Then you will notice that is NOT “Killing punch”. In terms of Fu Hoc, think of Mui Fa Sau (beginning part), and note that Hei (breath) and Geng are divided in five “portions” or bullets. In which you never extend fully (Lau) your arm.
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 19, 2004 8:21:51 GMT -5
Dear Tze Hou,
Hung Kuen schools in Singapore:
1) Kong Chou
2) Lin Nam Gymnasium Singapore:
Sung Chiu Yuen Sifu – Fong Din Man Sifu = Kong Yean Heong Sifu (present)
From the 44th Anniversary Souvenir magazine:
“…..Over the years, other styles added to the training curriculum of our school. These include Choy Gar, Jow Gar, Choy Li Fatt and other less known Hung Gar Forms. Recently, we have included the Yang style Tai Chi form to cater for other members of the school……..”<br> signed: Chan Chun Hou.
Singapore Lin Nam Pugilistic Gymnasium Kong Yean Heong Sifu Blk 131, #03-279 Geylang East Ave 1 Singapore 380131 Tel. 6744 3821
3) The third school in Singapore have the next lineage:
Lam Sai Wing – Song Chou Yuan – Chong Chin Kong (Victor Chong?)
Master Chong have a school in Kuala Lumpur also. I probably lost their details but can remember that an advanced student names Roy Yeow … contact me about the Ten Animal system.
Victor Chong Chin Kong Sifu Blk 124 A, Bukit Merah #02-410 S'PORE 151124 tel. 00 65 2757519
Hope this information can help you in your future path.
Kind regards,
Evert.
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Post by essence on Nov 19, 2004 8:38:53 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
Thank you so much for that information. This has helped me immensely.
I will make sure I pay each of the schools a visit in December when I go back.
Once again, thank you so much.
Gratefully, Tze Hou
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Hungfist
Full Member
...gotta launder my Karma.
Posts: 120
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Post by Hungfist on Nov 19, 2004 17:04:13 GMT -5
Exactly! Practitioners forget that Kiu Sau contains a huge part of non physical contact... Thanks for eloquently explaining something my communication skills had trouble clarifying.
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 22, 2004 3:06:53 GMT -5
Hi folks, Sorry, Evert sent this pix few days back and I forgot to post. Pix shows Sifu Chong of Singapore. Thanks.
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Post by essence on Nov 22, 2004 5:40:36 GMT -5
Good day Eric and Evert.
Is that a picture of Sifu Victor Chong?
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 22, 2004 7:11:20 GMT -5
Tze Hou,
Indeed this is Victor Chong. If you use Google, you will find more photo's on (mainly) Polish homepages (Piotr Osuch.
Good luck,
Evert.
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