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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 5, 2004 21:13:02 GMT -5
Hungfist ni hao Better late than never Visited the interesting site. Thank you for your info. Cheers.
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 7, 2004 16:05:53 GMT -5
I found in my archive some translation back whicha have a link with my branch, to be more specific, connection with Iron Wire Boxing. The conversation were between two monks that were students of Kwok Yan Sim Si. Read it and see if the text triggers you.
The martial arts theories of Zen masters Gan Fa and Xing Yin from Fujian Shaolin Si.
Zen master Gan Fa saids to colleague Xing Yin:
The art as I learned from my teacher is hard to find, if you are lucky you can be intorduced by Shaolin Si. The world is full of talented heroes, But without proper instruction from a teacher you will never reach the top.
Zen master Xing Yin saids:
If you have a student who is not a honesty man, then do not teach him the art even if he is willing to pay you 1000 goldbars. But if you are lucky to learn authentic Siu lam Boxing, you can change stones into gold.
Zen master Gan Fa saids:
The presentation of a true master will hardly presents twice in the same period, because not two people have the same unsurpassable. That is why we write this authentic knowledge on paper, so that the truth of Shaolin can be saved forever,
Zen master Xing Yin saids:
To create outstanding methods from outstanding methods, is to perform miraculous feats from miraculous feats.
Zen master Gan Fa saids:
If you want to know the correct stances from pictures, then you need to be interested in the correct application.
Zen master Gan Fa saids again:
If you talk about the art of Shaolin Boxing, it is all based on head, feet, body, heart and eyes.
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by Suhana LIM on Nov 8, 2004 4:29:13 GMT -5
I found in my archive some translation back whicha have a link with my branch, to be more specific, connection with Iron Wire Boxing. The conversation were between two monks that were students of Kwok Yan Sim Si. Read it and see if the text triggers you But without proper instruction from a teacher you will never reach the top. Zen master Xing Yin saids: If you have a student who is not a honesty man, then do not teach him the art even if he is willing to pay you 1000 goldbars. But if you are lucky to learn authentic Siu lam Boxing, you can change stones into gold. Evert. Evert ni hao Those two lines are really wonderful and still applicable to date. Especially with so many "plastics" in martial arts world. Thank you for letting us sharing the profound wisdom. Cheers.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 8, 2004 19:19:17 GMT -5
long hu xia shan
does this ring a bell to you hung kuen stylists? or is this from CLF?
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 9, 2004 8:33:47 GMT -5
Dear pitbull,
My poor brains sometimes make the same sound as my computer. I need to see characters before I am sure. The question is if you did use the correct mandarin romanization. If so, then there is no ringing of the bell. When it is Long Hu Chu Xian (which I strongly doubt), then I know it but do not understand it why you raise that name.
I am not familiar with CLF, so I can't say anything about this technique/ Cheng Wu.
Regards,
Evert.
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 9, 2004 8:42:21 GMT -5
Evert, I think Pit is talking about :- Long = Dragon Hu = Tiger Xia = descending Shan = mountain But then again, Pit is four-legged and he could be talking about dog food.hehehe
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 9, 2004 8:53:54 GMT -5
Most popular Tiger skills in Fu Hoc are:
E Hu Qin Yang: Hungry Tiger catches a Ram, Daan Hu Chu Dong: Tiger Goes out the cave, Meng Hu Xia Shan: Fierce Tiger descends from the mountain, Hu Ping Chai Lang: Tiger tramples on wolves, Meng Hu Ba Sha: Fierce Tiger scratches Sand, Meng Hu Tui Shan: Fierce Tiger Pushes the Mountain, Hei Hu Zhao Fa: Claws of a Black Tiger, Meng Hu Fu Yu: Fierce Tiger Pressed to the ground, Xuan Tan Fu Hu: Preesing Tiger to the Altar,
Combination of Tiger and Dragon:
Long Cang Hu Yue: Dragon Hides, Tiger Jumpes, Long Hu Chu Xian: Dragon and Tiger Meets.
My excuse for the quick extraction, I did use one of the e-books to quickly run through the names. As you see pitbull, the meng Hu Xia Shan comes closely to what you probably meant.
Regards,
Evert.
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Post by pitbull on Nov 9, 2004 20:05:31 GMT -5
what i actually mean is dragon-tiger going down the mountain...
correct me if im wrong but xia shan can also mean graduation or stuff like that meaning that he has come down from themountains bec he already finished his course there etc?
LOL im not talking about dogfood :-) i give my dog Canidae super premium dogfood! food for celestial dogs...
2x i gave my dogs tsingdao beer. just to see how they would react...later on i see my dogs doing 'double drunken dog' kungfu...they tilt their head to one side and walks in no direction LOL i wont be doing that to them anymore lol
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Post by essence on Nov 17, 2004 1:36:31 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
I need to ask you a question. Could you expound on the application of the Dan Jee Kiu? My understanding of this technique is to break free of someone holding onto your wrists. Is there a further use to this technique?
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 17, 2004 4:09:53 GMT -5
I guess that you mean with Daan Tji Kiu: single bridge hand?
If so, then I can’t give you an answer, simple because I can launch a thousand applications depending upon kind of attack, environment, and previous actions / movements.
As discussed in previous replies, the bridge hands encompass principles. These principles are NOT strict aspects, but can be changed in quality. Some are straight, soft, hard, reserved, controlled, etceteras. If I translate your question correctly, then I can not give any quality to it. The image you gave us, could be one that fit in. I am afraid that I am heading to a very complex explanation in words. If you were at my place, then I can explain you the underlying principles and methods that comes along with the Sap Tji Kiu Sau Faat.
To make it a bit more complex. Bridge Hands is a model split in three parts: Kiu Sau – Kiu Sau Faat and Kum La (Qin Na). 1) Kiu Sau is depended upon defender – attacker and environment. In the Kiu Sau there does not have to be any contact. Still there is a bridge between the two, only not a physical bridge. The second group encompass the quality of the bridge hands, such as leaning, cutting, grapping, borrowing, penetrating, etceteras….. The third group are simply divided in kill (Sat) or control (Jai). But also covers qualities as point, break, dislocate, etceteras…<br> Finally, we have the “ritual’ aspects of the art. I can show you a Daan Tji Kiu skill which have a hidden political meaning in it “Hide the Fist under” is the name, and have to deal with the underground symbolism as used in that particular time.
Technical you can think about ”Black Tiger Steals the Heart”, in which the quality is “stealing”. In return, “stealing” hides specific actions that give the taste/ flavour to that technique, in that situation….
My excuse for the long letter, but the theory/philosophy behind it, is the core of the system. Much more important then the forms. If you can’t read the bridge, then the form becomes an empty dance. I am afraid that this is seen too much nowadays……..
Kind regards,
Evert.
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Post by essence on Nov 17, 2004 5:50:49 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
Yes it is the Dan Tji Kiu I was referring to. I am very new to Hung Gar, having only been learning it for one year and so, am trying to experiment with the different techniques.
I have also heard about hiding the fist with regards to the Dan Tji Kiu and know that the Dan Tji Kiu symbolises more than just a technique, which is what made me extra curious about this technique and its application. Mainly in my Lohan form, we draw the right fist over the left hand which forms the Dan Tji Kiu after executing a punch which leads me to the conclusion that it is to break a hold on the wrist. I have also been taught to use this technique as a block to stifle a punch through a downward action or a sweeping action. It is also applicable as an attack on the eyes or throat. Is this going in the right direction?
Sorry if I sound rude, but are there any ways or ideas you could give me so that I may experiment more and find out for myself the different applications for this technique?
From your suggestion, I take it that the Dan Tji Kiu can be applied through the 12 bridges. Is this correct?
I agree completely that if you are not able to understand the bridges, then the forms become a meaningless dance. This is the exact reason why I seek more information regarding techniques and their application, and I have to thank you for helping me look deeper into their applications.
I am very grateful for your help in this matter.
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 17, 2004 23:14:56 GMT -5
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Post by essence on Nov 17, 2004 23:34:53 GMT -5
Good day Eric.
Wow, the first time I saw that school (in the 80's) I was very impressed with the structure of the building. I was young then and the thing that caught my attention was the weapons you could see.
Do you know the history of this school? Do you know if they still teach Hung Gar? I would be very interested to take lessons from Kong Chou. I had tried to learn Hung Gar from Kong Chou in the mid 90's but was told the sifu had left to teach Tai Chi.
Thank you for those photos Evert. One thing is, why does the frame in picture number 5 say "Hung Kuen Choy Lay Fut"?
Also to carry on the discussion of Dan Tji Kiu, in the last picture, what would the application of this technique be?
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Nataraya on Nov 18, 2004 9:22:01 GMT -5
Quote: One thing is, why does the frame in picture number 5 say "Hung Kuen Choy Lay Fut"?
In 1998 I received footages from a Hung Kuen colleague. Beautiful material from the Kong Chou school, with footages from the sixties/ seventies, as well as recent ones. Looking to the forms and skills of the many performers I can say that it isn’t pure Hung Kuen. There are influences from other styles as well, such as Choy Lee Fut. In between the school manifest the most exotic weapons, there are. From Meteor Hammers to Golden Coin Spade. More important is that the Faat/ Fa and Faat Geng/ Fa Jin, was good. I do know nothing about the historical background of that branch. However, it is worth to pay a visit and talk to practitioners about this branch.
Quote: Also to carry on the discussion of Dan Tji Kiu, in the last picture, what would the application of this technique be?
Wow, you are hungry. Okay, I can give you a simple application of “Zi Ding Zhong Yuan”, and you might be happy about that. But, then I am misleading you partly because the deeper meaning is not about application. In this case you are facing a gathering skill “Three extensions”. You collect and trapped the energy (Nei Li) in your Kiu Sau (Qiao Shou, arm).
The Kiu Sau is divided in three parts as you might now. Hand, forearm and upper-arm (till shoulder). To gather energy around the elbow is an interaction between wrist and shoulder. You re-direct the energy in your hands/ forearms in upward direction. Breathing and shoulder (rotations/ pressions) will pack and trap the energy in your arm. From this local area you can shoot energy bullets to your opponent, till the time that you need to collect/ gather again. This is one of the main principles behind Iron Wire Boxing, implanted in other pillar forms of Hung Kuen……………<br> As you might recognize, breathing and mind play an important role. Or said in another thread “excellent communication/ cooperation between the Three” will give you power. In terms of Kiu Sau (Qiao Shou), the keywords Lau/Liu (Keep, reserve) , Yau/ Rou (soft) and Bik/ Bi (force, pressure) play an important role in this skill.
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by essence on Nov 18, 2004 9:41:47 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
Another application of Dan Tji Kiu! I never realised the internal aspect of this technique. My Sifu never pointed this out to me.
Quote: To gather energy around the elbow is an interaction between wrist and shoulder.
This description immediately reminds me of the forming of the 2 Dan Tji Kius while standing and pushing outwards beside you instead of in front then pulling back in. I take it this movement is done to gather energy into the bridge? My focal point when I do this to breathe into the Dan Tien and concentrate tension in the bridge while trying to remain loose in the shoulder. Is this a correct application?
The last picture reminds me of GGFFK. Is the technique found in GGFFK? And when applying this technique, I am meant to be trying to gather energy into my bridge?
Sorry for the seemingly infinite questions. I am very hungry for knowledge pertaining to the traditional arts, and I am very grateful that you are willing to take the time and have the generosity to share your knowledge with me.
Gratefully, Tze Hou
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