|
Post by nothingness on Mar 12, 2005 14:57:24 GMT -5
I am not John and pardon me for being so bold.
SPM is Southern Praying Mantis, the Hakka style.
|
|
|
Post by Suhana LIM on Mar 12, 2005 15:02:15 GMT -5
I am not John and pardon me for being so bold. SPM is Southern Praying Mantis, the Hakka style. Nothingness ni hao ;D Thanks for explaining. I know the style as "Tang Lang", so SPM is the new name for Tang Lang. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by nothingness on Mar 12, 2005 15:05:32 GMT -5
I think they want to differentiate it from the northern praying mantis that is so different. NPM is more like what Adam Hsu teaches .
|
|
|
Post by BlackTiger on Mar 12, 2005 16:42:54 GMT -5
In Toisan Black Tiger I believe there are eight forms and six weapons. This is the system that I wish to learn. I'm learning my fourth form and each successive one adds to the last. There are two fighting forms, and others that train and condition the body and mind. I feel sometimes that it would be too many forms but they all add to can compliment each other. I have no desire to collect forms but to practice this art and make it work. I feel that many people collect and sample and then they will strip off what they cannot practice due to time constraints. My Sifu has told me that to practice all of what he knows he would have to be independently wealthy! If people collect forms and do nothing else with their kung fu, then they will only have that, and nothing else. People need to become proficent at it and practice a lot!
|
|
|
Post by Suhana LIM on Mar 12, 2005 18:14:00 GMT -5
In Toisan Black Tiger I believe there are eight forms and six weapons. This is the system that I wish to learn. I'm learning my fourth form and each successive one adds to the last. There are two fighting forms, and others that train and condition the body and mind. I feel sometimes that it would be too many forms but they all add to can compliment each other. I have no desire to collect forms but to practice this art and make it work. I feel that many people collect and sample and then they will strip off what they cannot practice due to time constraints. My Sifu has told me that to practice all of what he knows he would have to be independently wealthy! If people collect forms and do nothing else with their kung fu, then they will only have that, and nothing else. People need to become proficent at it and practice a lot! Black Tiger ni hao Nice to know you and welcome. Thank you for sharing with us your valuable experience. You are very lucky to have a very wise sifu. Cheers.
|
|
Marc
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by Marc on Mar 12, 2005 19:47:06 GMT -5
The less the better!
Western Principle (not directed at anyone) [glow=red,2,300]K.I.S.S.[/glow]
[glow=red,2,300]Keep It Simple Stupid![/glow]
Boxing = Two punches Srtraight & Curved add different angles and directions and you get these:
Based on Straight
Jab High & Low Straight Right or Left Cross
Based on Curved
Short Hook High & low Long Hook High & Low Short Uppercut Long Uppercut Bolo Hammer Back Hand
Add targets and you get these
Liver Punch Rabbit Punch Chin Jab (uppercut)
and on and on and on.................
It can get overwhelming to a beginner and yet this is based on just Two Punches. As an Instructor you have to use the K.I.S.S. principle to establish a foundation and develop some basic structure. Later you can add or complicate, but remember sophistication adds demands that produce less and less skilled practitioners. Which when faced with actual altercations may instead KISS their butts goodbye. If instead you train students based on their own physical and mental attributes you can produced simplier methods for them to respond with.
Method over Art
|
|
|
Post by BlackTiger on Mar 12, 2005 21:42:41 GMT -5
I am very lucky to be studying under my Sifu. If you are more interested you can visit the website. There are some videos of Toisan Black Tiger and some articles on Black Tiger, Five Animals and others. www.mts.net/~sillum/Inner%20Chamber.htmI think personally, that with boxing and the basic two types of punches, that you are training for a combat sport and not a street situation. Granted I doubt that a million techniques are necessary, but there is more to combat than just punching, and there are so many complicated things the body can and surely will do. That is not to knock boxing, the sheer stamina is incredible!
|
|
jeff
New Member
A very rare Tiger!
Posts: 28
|
Post by jeff on Mar 12, 2005 22:37:48 GMT -5
I don't know about the more the better i rather like the "KISS" method myself.
Keeping that in mind the Black Tiger style i do has around 100 forms now. It originally had four fist and four weapons ,when Soo Hak Fu created it.
Grandmaster Wong Cheung spent his entire life learning and teaching various styles of kung fu from Hak Fu Muhn,Hung Gar,Hung Fut,Ba Gua,etc.... He learned and exchanged with many masters from Wong Fei Hung to Lam Sai Wai to Bak Mou Jiu ,so he added much of what "he" learned to the Black Tiger style he was intrusted with.
You can't go anywhere in the Hong Kong martial arts circles and not hear stories about Wong Cheung ,and his kung fu.
At the sametime as he taught my sifu ,my sifu has taught me ,and i quote it here.
"Master two forms ,and they are enough to last you a LIFETIME!"
My sifu preaches this to me all the time ,and i truly believe that.
jeff:)
|
|
Leon
New Member
Posts: 29
|
Post by Leon on Mar 12, 2005 22:56:45 GMT -5
If someone spends all his time learning forms, and totally forgets about actual fighting, I don't think the problem is too many forms, but that person was too careless and lost track of his training. Btw, I want to ask; the only martial arts that have forms are Chinese, Korean Martial Arts, and Karate, correct?
|
|
Marc
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by Marc on Mar 12, 2005 23:23:26 GMT -5
Ni Hao Black Tiger My use as Boxing was as an example of something so simple and yet so complex. Boxing is today primarily only a sport but dont tell boxers that, they get greatly offended. In fact most boxers tend to say that martial arts are sports and boxing can save your life in the street. Eventually boxers are willing to get in the ring, many martial artists are not. Funny how each camp belittles the other. In any case, whatever your choice of discipline is, train the fundamentals most and all else will gradually fall in place. That is of course if your fundamentals were designed by someone who actually fought!. I bring this up because so many people practice so silly, pulling back attacks, punching and kicking air, which has no resistance and dancing endlessly without doing enough two man work to truly understand struggle. Or attacking each other with only prearranged manuevers instead of playing hands with people who dont attack or defend in the same style as you. Something so crucial to develop your ability to react positively to unknown stimuli. None of us wants to be in a situation where we throw that big finishing punch and it either misses, hits something that was not the target , hits the opponent and doesnt do anything or is nullified by the opponent and now we have to bring our dead hand from our waist up into play while the opponents counter combination is re-arranging our cranial structure. ;D This is almost non exsistant in Boxing and unlike sport boxing, complete boxers tend to know a lot more of striking and defending with other body parts, not to mention wrestling after the "clinch". A little research on old Boxing manuscripts and you will be surprised just how many things are in common with modern martial arts. Remember it was Pankration in Ancient Greece. Now called Ultimate Fighting; ah how history repeats itself. I could go on but I think you get the idea.
|
|
|
Post by Suhana LIM on Mar 12, 2005 23:38:16 GMT -5
If someone spends all his time learning forms, and totally forgets about actual fighting, I don't think the problem is too many forms, but that person was too careless and lost track of his training. Btw, I want to ask; the only martial arts that have forms are Chinese, Korean Martial Arts, and Karate, correct? Leon ni hao IMHO, Pencak Silat also has forms. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Suhana LIM on Mar 12, 2005 23:45:35 GMT -5
I don't know about the more the better i rather like the "KISS" method myself. Grandmaster Wong Cheung spent his entire life learning and teaching various styles of kung fu from Hak Fu Muhn,Hung Gar,Hung Fut,Ba Gua,etc.... He learned and exchanged with many masters from Wong Fei Hung to Lam Sai Wai to Bak Mou Jiu ,so he added much of what "he" learned to the Black Tiger style he was intrusted with. You can't go anywhere in the Hong Kong martial arts circles and not hear stories about Wong Cheung ,and his kung fu. At the sametime as he taught my sifu ,my sifu has taught me ,and i quote it here. "Master two forms ,and they are enough to last you a LIFETIME!" My sifu preaches this to me all the time ,and i truly believe that. jeff:) Jeff ni hao Thanks for sharing your sifu valuable advise with us here. Cheers.
|
|
|
Post by Suhana LIM on Mar 13, 2005 0:03:06 GMT -5
At this juncture, I just want to stay “cut and paste”. And Suhana, I am not upset here – it takes a lot more to needle me. I just kind of wish that we apply more discernment in what we say or present in this forum. You are, afterall, an elder in your system. Many younger members are looking up to you for directions. And Sir, Chinese Kung Fu is no longer an exclusive Chinese property. Yes, it started Chinese but it is really international now, transcending race, culture or creed. I am deeply humbled by Evert, Russ, Victor, Hendrick and many others in this forum. Their knowledge of CKF and Asian fighting arts are astounding. And it shows so very clearly in what they say in this forum – putting many of us Chinese to shame. And humbly, I think I am in the position to realize that. Thank you. Eric ni hao Glad to know that it takes a lot more to needle you If I( a guest in your tea house), may suggest, why don't you give us a guidelines on what subject, source, that prohibited or not in your tea house. Sure this will minimise the problem that may arise in the future. As you mentioned that "His truth can never be my truth." And Sir, pardon me for my limited knowledge and understanding here, but I need more clarification on this line "putting many of us Chinese to shame." Thank you.
|
|
Marc
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by Marc on Mar 13, 2005 0:07:31 GMT -5
Couldnt resist putting up an excerpt from "The Science of Self Defence" a treastise on sparring & wrestling by Edmund Price 1867Boxing Study Materials and possibly the western version of "kho" a Shuai Jiao throw ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by JookLum on Mar 18, 2005 0:30:09 GMT -5
Hello everyone!
Many use Tang Lang to refer to the northern praying mantis art and Tong Long to refer to the southern praying mantis art in order to differentiate between the two, but as always there are exceptions.
Just my two cents!
|
|