|
Post by namsiulamkuen on Jan 11, 2005 14:28:22 GMT -5
Hi everyone, great forum. Nice to see the politics and bickering are not to prevelant in the forum. Let's hope it stays this way.
In bagua there is a play on the connection of the external and internal. One of the exercise they pratice is "standing pole" technique. I am not sure (nataraya would know) but in Hung gam, I think "packing" is used. Both use Dragon techniques to develop this connection. Can anyone enlighten the forum about their style using similar techniques?
|
|
|
Post by Nataraya on Jan 11, 2005 16:13:47 GMT -5
Welcome nslk, I am very pleased to have you on board. I hope you are willing to act openly in this forum, and feel free to ask whatever you want.
First of all, Dragon play differs per district, meaning that the symbolical meaning of the Dragon act in Hung Kuen change with that of Hakka or Fukien Boxing. All Southern Boxing systems.
Dragon play in Hung Kuen have a deper meaning, because it reesembles Heart, Fire and so Internal work. Heaven, Earth, men can be translated too in Water, Fire and Wind. Water is the lower Dantien, Fire is the heart or Intent while the Wind is the breathing process. To create an optimal flame you need wind (sounds, breathing skills) to make the flame (heart, Intent) bigger so that it can warms the water (earth), which change into steam (noi lik) and rise to the arms, waiting for expressions.
A solid foundation - what Tze Hou describes as solid stance (tucked pelvis), creates an optimal foundation to let the "vulcano" burst, like a fire spitting Dragon. The Intent (Yi) will act as a driver to channel the energy and change it (eventually) into geng/ Jing or martial power.
This is a simplified model that is (can be) used to translate the process as happens in the body.
The meaning of Dragon in Hakka and Fukien Boxing is different, that's so far that i do understand and see it. maybe others can shine some light about the Internal processes in Fukien Boxing?
I forget to say that the middle dantien represents the fire. Alignment play a VERY important role, and therefore you need a GOOD stance, Tze Hou.
Warm regards,
Evert.
|
|
|
Post by Eric Ling on Jan 11, 2005 18:47:08 GMT -5
Hi namsiulamkuen, A warm welcome to you. Being the "admin" of this forum, it is my "responsibility" to keep politics out of our exchanges. So far, members are really showing their qualities as first-rate martial artists. We all want to keep this little forum as pleasant as possible. Again, Welcome.
|
|
|
Post by essence on Jan 12, 2005 2:44:53 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
Thank you for explaining that, it makes a lot of sense to me. Aligning the back as I know, creates the environment for the development of internal energy and the cultivation of chi.
Would this be the main reason why we use the Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma instead of the Sei Ping Ma when we do our internal work? Better alignment? Better grounding? I have come to associate Dragon with the Kim Yeung Ma due to the fact that I do my Dragon mainly in this stance. What would be the reason behind this?
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
|
|
|
Post by Nataraya on Jan 12, 2005 5:44:45 GMT -5
Quote: Would this be the main reason why we use the Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma instead of the Sei Ping Ma when we do our internal work? Better alignment? Better grounding? I have come to associate Dragon with the Kim Yeung Ma due to the fact that I do my Dragon mainly in this stance. What would be the reason behind this?
The circle is round, but you always need to make a first step. That’s Fook Fu or taming the Tiger. In our case the Tiger is a symbol for physical conditions, exact the way the Dragon refers to mental/ spiritual aspects. The term Fook Fu is being used for simple push ups, and in fact stands for must strengthening aspects, preparing for an optimal condition. As we all know the length of the Kuen Tou – in Hung Kuen – is rather long, good for stamina and breathing. When finished this level, you can say you manage to pass the Fook Fu level rather well.
Talking about basics, a deep horse stance (Paat Fen Sei Ping Ma), is a very nice way in training good condition of your leg muscles, besides the fact that it is a nice position to stimulate the mind battles. But in fact, the essential point is leg strength. High Horse (or Yee Tji Kim Yeung Ma, is more for Internal work because from this position the pelvis is free to create a solid foundation. There are two Yee Tji Kim Yeung Ma positions. The high one is that of Four Fen, the low Yee Tji is that of Seven Fen. Hard to explain, easy to show.
In previous mail I did explain about the Five pieces grabbing the earth, very important skill because it is linked with the nine pearls. A theory that explain the channelling of ‘noi lik’ through the body.
Warm regards,
Evert.
|
|
|
Post by namsiulamkuen on Jan 12, 2005 14:16:44 GMT -5
Evert,
Thank you for the info.
From what you say, I deduce how the structure of individual postures play an important role in these processes. The correct alignment to allow everything to become linked. In other words covering the basic principles of Kung fu.
You mentioned wind (breathing). Is this a natural progression obtained after a time spent training, or is there a process where one teaches a mechanical process. Is it a question of merely using deep abdominal breathing? Is it, as you mentioned in an early topic, that you use (to obtain a basic level) the spit and swallow concept.
|
|
|
Post by Nataraya on Jan 12, 2005 14:51:07 GMT -5
Quote: You mentioned wind (breathing). Is this a natural progression obtained after a time spent training, or is there a process where one teaches a mechanical process. Is it a question of merely using deep abdominal breathing? Is it, as you mentioned in an early topic, that you use (to obtain a basic level) the spit and swallow concept.
The martial path is 1) is having a good condition 2) memorizing postures/ movement, without thinking. Important because where the mind is you will find the energy. Thinking (for instance) is an activity in the head, meaning you will find most of the energy then. If you focus on proper rooting, and/ or abdominal breathing skills, then the energy will be found low in the body.
All gathering and packing processes starts in the feet (five pieces of gold grab the earth), meaning that my attention is down deep, so far from my brains. If you do not know the movements correctly, the packing will be incomplete with the result that it have an influence on the final amount of explosion. For an optimal explosion you need; good alignment/ physical (Water, Tiger, Earth), and you need relaxation for deep breathing ( Wind, Men), and an optimal concentration/ focus (Fire, Dragon, Heaven).
Look to the eyes (the Mirrors of the Soul), and listen to his sounds/ breathing. Great observation tools to get an impression about the communication/ coordination of the three important components, in your student.
Spit and Swallow aspects are 2 basic principles of Internal work. When we link thiese two principles to breathing, then it is correct to state that an improper breathing/ sounds technique, will lead to disharmony of mind – breath – body.
I quickly read my words back and I must convince that it gives me a sensation that it all sounds very philosophically. But in fact it is quiet easy! Therefore I like to refer to Konghan's exercise and pictures in another thread. These nice photo’s is about punching.
A practitioner is punching a strikingpad. What you see is a) good alignment and so physical posture b) correct breathing should be there, during the punch (on the correct moment) c) and proper focussing. Your partner feel the final result of explosion and can coach him to create a better harmony. For c) use a striking pad and start moving this. Your trainings - partner need to focus eeven more on the object, his mind (Intent/ energy) is fully on the pad. So with one pure basic skill you already trained the unity of the Three.
Finally in the novice stage, quantity can be deadly for the correct martial development of your student(s).
Warm regards,
Evert.
|
|
|
Post by Nataraya on Jan 14, 2005 10:33:05 GMT -5
nslk, I am not sure if you were able to face the lectures that I gave in Hong Kong? In it you will find the next two pictures to describe one of your questions: Evert.
|
|
|
Post by namsiulamkuen on Jan 14, 2005 11:19:10 GMT -5
Quote "nslk, I am not sure if you were able to face the lectures that I gave in Hong Kong? In it you will find the next two pictures to describe one of your questions"
Haven't been to hong kong since 1986, I bet there were excellent lectures though.
I don't read chinese, unfortuately, so I am not sure about the picture on the right.
I tried an experiment in class, whereby I got the students to concentrate there thoughts in rooting themselves. Interesting and postive results.
Thanks for that Evert
|
|
|
Post by namsiulamkuen on Jan 15, 2005 8:53:36 GMT -5
Hi Evert
I wasn't sure whether to start another thread or continue with this one.
Quote 'The Intent (Yi) will act as a driver to channel the energy and change it (eventually) into geng/ Jing or martial power.'
Played on this, this morning with positive results with my advanced students. Fairly easy to grasp the ideal, more difficult to put into practice and capture its esscence.
Here's what we practiced
With all the structure of the movement in place, not thinking about the movement itself but to use their thoughts to visualize an intent, albeit a defence or attack or to move or remain stationery. To visualise the energy into their limbs. To have the mind empty of other thoughts.
Later to practice a movement with a flavour using the five elements and bridging concepts.
Hope I am on the right track.
Best wishes
NSLK
|
|
|
Post by Nataraya on Jan 15, 2005 9:06:24 GMT -5
Nslk,
The attached pictures shows is part of a model divided of nine steps. First step is the physical level, simply said that Fook Fu stage. The ninth level is the highest level, to stay in these terms Fook Lung. In between are the seven steps to reach the highest spiritual goal there is.
There is a relation between the second, third and fourth level/ star. Translated them roughly you can say Ying, Yi, and Ching or image, thought and feeling. I touched this in my previous mail.
The breathing skills (Haang Hei/ Xing Qi) plays an essential role in the higher levels of martial arts. One of the skills the advanced practitioner starts to learn is the technique of Chyun Seung or focusing/ leading (with the mind) the breath to the store (lower Dantien). As you might know, the bottom is the area with the water (Qi Hai) and we need Fire to let it raise to a higher level. You need breathing skills to do so, such as holding (shortly) the breath [Bai Hei] for a while, such as in the Hung Kuen skill as: “Double sword cutting Bridges”. In fact the set is full of these little details, which later (Tit Sin Kuen level) becomes clear. We directly touch one of the keywords of the Bridge Hands by the way(Ding/ fixing/ settle).
The drawing shows the images of focus spots. With other words; you imagining yourself leading the breath through certain points/ paths. That’s all.
For Tze Hou, the pelvis is being used to tuck, in a kind of pumping action. The Yee Tji Kim Yeung Ma stance is for opening Ming Men.
The main goal in fact is to balance the Internal energy in an upwards and outwards direction. Tit Sin Kuen contains no kicking skills, all arm/ hand patterns. It is up to the performer to choose what kind of modus he likes to play; martial or nourishing modus (Yang Sheng). For the observer it is clear that the explosions will lead to a loss of energy, besides the fact that the speed is rather high. In nourishing it is a play of energy, channeling it from inward to outwards, left to right and back to the storage. Frequent play will lead to a higher quality of flow and/ or to a healthier life.
Even if you practice the martial modus, the health is still in there. Every practitioner of TSK can show you the impact on the body. Excessive sweating and a low heart rhythm. The sweating will expel ‘evil qi’ and make the body clean…….
Warm regards,
Evert.
Note: Russ are you willing to offer the Tit Sin Kuen article for the visitors? In this article you will find more about the thoughts about Iron Wire Boxing, and its impact on Hung Ga Kuen.
Note2: nslk just saw that you launched a letter, will start reading it now.
|
|
|
Post by Nataraya on Jan 15, 2005 9:21:04 GMT -5
Nslk,
Focussing (Chyun Seung) is the keyword together with diligent practice. Last week I was able to look at the world championship Darts. Very interesting observations, and a good article this morning in the news paper.
These darters practice many hours per day, so they can through blindly triple 20 or any doubles. The moment they are in competition and they want to win, the emotions start to terrorize the focus, and they will have a difficult time. The darter with the best focus (and so relaxation) will be the winner. The winner this year (Barney) had a mental coach that thought him to discriminate audio and visual impulses. Truly beautiful to see how players are stuck in emotions and throw so badly, complete legs long. I truly love to see the match point ball in tennis. Even the best tennis player have a tough time to get the first one. Here you see again the impact of emotion on the focus. High tension, lost of precision and power explosion.
In relation to martial workouts. You can not practice a Kuen Tou together, certainly NOT TSK. Maybe just for memorizing movements, but it will stay empty because the focus is spread and so incorrect. The martial path is a personal one, you need to do it on your own. That’s why I teach closed door based on individual coaching. A large group might be financially interesting, but technically it will have a low rendement.
Regards,
Evert.
|
|
|
Post by Nataraya on Jan 17, 2005 10:19:04 GMT -5
Nslk, Some fragments out of my lecture. It is a second model that I used, see the picture: In man, the fundamental breathing current is symbolized by the union of the trigrams “Kan” (Water) and “Li” (Fire). There is another union, that of the eyes. The left eye symbolizes wood while the right eye is metal. Eye actions are very important in martial arts and an important tool to practice. By concentrating the mind (Heart, fire)– during Saam Tzien Sau in Tit Sin Kuen – on the lower abdomen (Yiu Fok/ lower dantien), one’s essence is heated by fire to become steam, so that the energy can (for instance) rise or channeled on any spot you want. Water element you must think off: Kidney/ Bladder and Qihai (see of Hei/ chi). Note: During Saam Tzien Sau we close our eyes because we collect/ gather the energy. There are methods to rotate the eyes and stimulate unison better. For those who are interested in reading an article about Iron Wire Boxing, I like to refer to Russ Smith his homepage. He is been so nice to give us a little space for downloading the article: Homepage: www.goju-ryu.info/You need to registrate! Go to resource Library, Specific type: Tid Sin, and media- type: image
|
|