Hindiandi Gung Fu

[olddragon]

My teacher was taught a style of gung fu years ago on Okinawa that he refers to as Hindiandi gung fu. He was taught by a man named Kanishiro. Hindiandi means "Changing hands Penetrating hands" , this is the closest translation anyone has come up with and I beleive the word is an okinawan word.

This is a drill based system and until my teacher encountered it, it had no forms. He created forms to honor his sensei and to preserve the techniques. There is very little history on this and it is beleived that Kanishiro learned it in China, but not even his family seems to know with whom he studied or what the original name of the style was.

It is very simple, very circular and extremly basic. To my knowledge Kanishiro only taught one or two non Okinawan people and actually refused to teach whites, although there were one or two that he was convinced to teach.

I'm not here to debate weather this is a bogus style or not, I realize there is a lack of history and was wondering if anyone had any knowledge of it.

If you want to dicuss its legitimacy go somewhere else, I am simply searching for history. It is a very efficient style and definatly a combat style with no flowery moves. My teacher has no claims on it outside of what I am telling you. His teacher Tatsuo Shimabuku is reported to have sent him to Kanishiro to learn. This would tell me that Shimabuku had faith in what Kanishiro had to say.

Anyone got any answers?

Mike O'Leary

[Gojumaster]

Mike,

There are many people on this board who have seen many, many styles of kung fu.

Perhaps if we could see Hindiani in action, we could recommend a similar style to look at in depth.

Best Regards,

Russ

olddragon said:

My teacher was taught a style of gung fu years ago on Okinawa that he refers to as Hindiandi gung fu. He was taught by a man named Kanishiro. Hindiandi means "Changing hands Penetrating hands" , this is the closest translation anyone has come up with and I beleive the word is an okinawan word.

This is a drill based system and until my teacher encountered it, it had no forms. He created forms to honor his sensei and to preserve the techniques. There is very little history on this and it is beleived that Kanishiro learned it in China, but not even his family seems to know with whom he studied or what the original name of the style was.

It is very simple, very circular and extremly basic. To my knowledge Kanishiro only taught one or two non Okinawan people and actually refused to teach whites, although there were one or two that he was convinced to teach.

I'm not here to debate weather this is a bogus style or not, I realize there is a lack of history and was wondering if anyone had any knowledge of it.

If you want to dicuss its legitimacy go somewhere else, I am simply searching for history. It is a very efficient style and definatly a combat style with no flowery moves. My teacher has no claims on it outside of what I am telling you. His teacher Tatsuo Shimabuku is reported to have sent him to Kanishiro to learn. This would tell me that Shimabuku had faith in what Kanishiro had to say.

Anyone got any answers?

Mike O'Leary

[olddragon]

Thanks Russ:

Unfortunatly I have no knowledge of any sites that have footage of it, I have one or two short tapes but no way to put them online.

The basic Kamai or ready stance is reminiscent of sanchin in that both arms are out front and defelction is the primary defence, with redirection and then responsive attacking. There are several two handed techniques of blocking and it definatly has take downs and joint lock action in it.

There is lots of circular arm and hand motions as we see in wing chung (although I am not well versed in it, just observations on my part) lots of "covering the centerline" The basic fighting stance has one hand in a fist and one hand open, if that strikes anyones memory.

Mike O'Leary

[Gojumaster]

Mike,

If you send me a copy of the tape(s), I will convert to digital format and make it available to the people you wish to see it.

Best Regards,

Russ

olddragon said:

Thanks Russ:

Unfortunatly I have no knowledge of any sites that have footage of it, I have one or two short tapes but no way to put them online.

The basic Kamai or ready stance is reminiscent of sanchin in that both arms are out front and defelction is the primary defence, with redirection and then responsive attacking. There are several two handed techniques of blocking and it definatly has take downs and joint lock action in it.

There is lots of circular arm and hand motions as we see in wing chung (although I am not well versed in it, just observations on my part) lots of "covering the centerline" The basic fighting stance has one hand in a fist and one hand open, if that strikes anyones memory.

Mike O'Leary

[Nataraya]

Dear Mike,

The information you give doesn't say a lot. The words drill orientated, no Kata and circular makes it even harder to trace. Maybe you can write the name in Kanji, then we can translate it into Cantonese, Mandarin and Hokien names. Maybe Dian Di means Duen Da or short fist skill? Maybe it is a spelling problem and means Tien Ti? If you can give us the name in Chinese characters then it can start ringing a bell.

Kindest regards,

Evert.

[olddragon]

Evert:

Giving it in Chinese I feel is redundant because the Name Hindiandi is Okinawan and I beleive...(dont shoot me sensei If I'm wrong) the name that Kanishiro refered to it as and not the original name of the style. It may well be simply a collection of techniques that Kanishiro brought back from China during the 30's and 40's. I dont have any Chinese Kangi for this name either.

I know this was a shot in the dark but it was worth a try. Also Russ: I will atempt to make copies but the quality is so poor now that copies I have tried to make people in the past have failed. They are copies of copies and as we all know they lose quaility over time. I beleive the unfortunate part is that it would appear that Kanishiro was not interested in a style per say, but in simply practicing. I am not even sure if he passed on everything he learned or if he simply passed on parts that he found relavant.

In my travels I have encountered a few people who train in the "old ways" that cannot trace their lineage due to lack of information and they were not preaching a style, just a personal love to train. A few of these have had some real insights into some things and appeared to be the pre verbial true student. I never pass up an opportunity to train with people who have alot of personal history no matter if they openly admit "lost history" . I have also met another man who is from Japan who reportedly trained with his neighbour who was Okinawan from the age of 8, He only knows that his neighbour was Okinawan and taught TE to the local kids. As the kids grew up so did the level of training. They were taught many kata from different Okinawan styles but were told only two counted... Nihanchi and Sanchin, and the Sanchin is Goju based before Miyagi made the changes, and done with tension. The Nihanchi has Shorin base traits. This man only has knowledge of Gamaku hip movement, but his knowledge of it is amazing. Once again he has no dojo and simply says... he has no Idea of his teachers lineage nor did the teacher ever refer to what he was teaching as anything other than Okinawa karate "TE" or TI as some people spell it.

MIke O'Leary

[Eric Ling]

Hi folks,

Mike – completely no problem.

In my book, it is absolutely okay to do something and not have the history, complete or otherwise.
My disagreement is with folks who warp or forge history etc….

Humbly, I speak for all when I say this forum is for quest – pursuit of the truth or trying to get as near as we could. This is why I am encouraging Evert to share his vault of information. I am putting my collection on the table and over time I hope to work with Russ to store everything on-line.

Traditional Kung Fu, again IMHO, is meant to be shared. Hogging will only lead to disappearance!

I too have a few forms that I am totally clueless when history and transmission lines are concerned.

In my youth, I had a very good friend who taught me a form called “Seven Steps Chase” from a style he called “Sai Boon Koon”. He got it from his late father who is from Xiamen Fukien.

Nothing is recognizable about this style – I cannot find any info in any of my books/manuals and magazines I collected over the years. When my White Crane Si-Hing visited Fuzhou, he checked and drew blanks. The same reaction when I talk to Kung Fu veterans I met in SE Asia.
The other thing is that this friend became a “born-again” Christian and renounced all his Kung Fu. He absolutely refused to talk about it again.

“Seven Steps Chase” is “tear tendons and hitting nerve points” type Kung Fu. Very attacks oriented and the story is that you kill your opponents in “7 Steps”.

I cannot make anything out of “Sai Boon Koon” except to assume that it is spoken in Fukien dialect. “Sai” could mean “lion” and “Boon” is either “culture” or “scholar”.
“koon” is fists.

I still do the form and love every minute of it.

Still, I am dying to know more about background and all that.

But this thread is not about me and what I do.

You should really think about letting some of us view this form of yours. This much I could tell you; at the very least we could narrow it down for you. Different CKF has it own definitive characteristics.
This is your description:-


“The basic Kamai or ready stance is reminiscent of sanchin in that both arms are out front and deflection is the primary defense, with redirection and then responsive attacking. There are several two handed techniques of blocking and it definitely has take downs and joint lock action in it.

There is lots of circular arm and hand motions as we see in wing chung (although I am not well versed in it, just observations on my part) lots of "covering the centerline" The basic fighting stance has one hand in a fist and one hand open, if that strikes anyone’s memory.”<br>
In brief:-

• Sanchin like kamai - suggesting Fukien or Hakka in origin.
• Deflection – generic Kung Fu methodology.
• 2 handed techniques or what we call father-son hands in CKF terminology.
• Take downs/joint locks – another generic embedded feature in most Kung Fu.
• Circular motions – ditto.
• Covering centerline – often you would hear that this is Wing Chun-specific. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wing Chun, however, has this as their central stratagem and they made a very high-art out of this.
• One hand fist and one hand open – this is typical “Ming” symbolic techniques spotting many styles to come out of the anti-Manchurian period in Chinese history.

Mike, you could be describing Tai Chor/Grand Ancestor or even Ngor Chor/5 Ancestors Fukien Kung Fu.

Sanchin stance more or less takes off most Northern or Cantonese styles.

You are now down to Fukien or Hakka.

Seeing the form might provide more clues.

We spoke about this briefly in another forum and I suggested that it could be Tibetan because of the name. I can’t find that copy of magazine that talked about the suspected Tibetan style.

Evert, do you have this? I think it is in “New Martial Hero” and the style is called “Mi Zhong Shen Shou” or “The Saintly Hands of Mi Zhong”.

Regards.

[Nataraya]

Dear Mike,

Did use a Cantonese Dictionary and found out that the written way of Hin that could have been of Cantonese origin. But the words Dian and Di does not exist in Cantonese. But again in Mandarin.

Hin – Dian – Di:

Hin is a Cantonese pronunciation and can mean: drag/ pull/ lead by hand. But it have more meanings such as:

1) raise, hold high
2) inseparable, entangled, attached too,
3) lift, raise, stir,
4) clear,
5) send off, dispatch
6) offer, present, show

I need characters to be sure, and if one of the above characters will be correct, then you should see it in the Keywords of your style. For instance: ‘attached too’ is a system based on close contact. It is what Eric state; Once we make a bridge (contact) you are mine….. A system of which many Hakka and Fukien styles are orientated. Little things but, a slight direction.

Warm regards,

Evert.