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Post by Evert on Oct 21, 2004 13:15:39 GMT -5
Okay, it is time to reveal a secret. We are a small family and sometimes it is necessary to share some secrets. The first time I met Eric was approximately 400 years ago. I was in charge of Fort Zeelandia (Southwest coastal area of Taiwan), learning the Ancestral Crane. Then suddenly Eric came up, his name then was Cheng Chen Gong. Yes, indeed the pirate. He was hunted by the Manchurian Qing Dynasty. Cheng went underground in Taiwan, later he begged me to teach him Ancestral Crane. I said No, and then it all begins…………..
“……….There was a large occupation of Dutch in Taiwan, at the same time the group around Cheng formed a secret society of warriors loyal to the Ming Dynasty. In the process Cheng planted the seeds that would grow into Hung Men.
In 1624, the 4th year of the reign of Ming dynasty, the Dutch began to settle in the southwest coastal area of Taiwan. Cheng Zi Long and his friend Yan Si Qi, settled in Taiwan (later) specifically in Yunlin, Jiayi, and Qikan, working as farmers. Swearing an oath of brotherhood, they bowed to heaven & Earth and vowed : Heaven and Earth are our parents. We are sworn brothers. We must help each other and share the happiness and the hardship. “This was the beginning of another famous secret society, the Heaven and Earth Society or Tiandihui…………….
Then Eric and I had a tough fight………..
“….. General Cheng’s army launched a six month campaign against the Dutch, capturing their fortress called Fort Zeelandia and ending their control over Taiwan. From this new base, General Cheng posed the biggest threat ever the Qing rule, waging a relentless campaign to restore the Ming to the Dragon Throne.”….”<br>
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 21, 2004 22:08:50 GMT -5
Okay, it is time to reveal a secret. We are a small family and sometimes it is necessary to share some secrets. The first time I met Eric was approximately 400 years ago. I was in charge of Fort Zeelandia (Southwest coastal area of Taiwan), learning the Ancestral Crane. Then suddenly Eric came up, his name then was Cheng Chen Gong. Yes, indeed the pirate. He was hunted by the Manchurian Qing Dynasty. Cheng went underground in Taiwan, later he begged me to teach him Ancestral Crane. I said No, and then it all begins………….. “……….There was a large occupation of Dutch in Taiwan, at the same time the group around Cheng formed a secret society of warriors loyal to the Ming Dynasty. In the process Cheng planted the seeds that would grow into Hung Men. In 1624, the 4th year of the reign of Ming dynasty, the Dutch began to settle in the southwest coastal area of Taiwan. Cheng Zi Long and his friend Yan Si Qi, settled in Taiwan (later) specifically in Yunlin, Jiayi, and Qikan, working as farmers. Swearing an oath of brotherhood, they bowed to heaven & Earth and vowed : Heaven and Earth are our parents. We are sworn brothers. We must help each other and share the happiness and the hardship. “This was the beginning of another famous secret society, the Heaven and Earth Society or Tiandihui……………. Then Eric and I had a tough fight……….. “….. General Cheng’s army launched a six month campaign against the Dutch, capturing their fortress called Fort Zeelandia and ending their control over Taiwan. From this new base, General Cheng posed the biggest threat ever the Qing rule, waging a relentless campaign to restore the Ming to the Dragon Throne.”….”<br> Wrong – the above story is pure imaginary tale, not a tad of truth. You would be very wise to completely disregard it. Let me tell you the truth. Yes Evert met me about 400+ years ago. My name then was Chen Shi Nan (I used many different names to baffle the pursuing Manchus). Evert was then attached to the Dutch ambassador in China – an office attaché, so to speak hehehe. But you see, that was only a façade. His real mission was to creep into the Kung Fu societies to learn Chinese fighting arts and export it to Holland. I was already teaching Fong Sai Yuk and Hong Hei Koon and was hesitant about taking another disciple especially a red-hair devil (this was many moons ago and Evert could actually comb his hair hahahaha). On top of that, I was the CEO of Hong Fa Hui, very busy ....... He did the usual Western thing i.e. unscrupulous, immoral, and depraved– he tried to bride me into giving in. All the gold and silver did not move me an inch. Finally, he brought out Carlsberg – drums after drums. Well, you know the story afterwards. I am now totally addicted to Carlsberg and Evert is teaching, what he got from me, in Holland. He named it Hong Gar – the day that he knelt in front of me to offer Carlsberg, the sky suddenly turned red. Red is “Hong” in Chinese and he took this to be a celestial sign.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 21, 2004 22:37:20 GMT -5
On a more sober note, yes many SS are linked to CKF. In Singapore, there was once an infamous gang known as “Chaat Puay Koon Tong” or the “18 Altars” (approx) who were vicious. Guilty of many clashes that ended in loss of many lives. The “18” were actually part of Siao Lim in the past. In kung fu we say there are the:- 1. White gang – nice, wholesome, goody 2 shoes like us in this forum. (Not counting Dutch who are born primordially defective – you Evert). 2. Black gang – the “tongs”, “triads” or “Hong Men”. 3. Green gang – the wanderers of “Ziang Hu”. These folks are performers, healers and protectors mainly. Remember, all the above are fully kung fu trained and some lines are sustained until the current days. The “18” in Singapore are brothers as far as we are concerned even though we consider them as wayward. Reciprocal respect is the key of our relationship. There are “secret” hand signs we do to recognize one and another. This is to avoid regrettable events of brothers trying to chop chop each others. On a personal level; they tried to “recruit” me many times to be one of their “fight hands”. I had to turn down their (very lucrative) offers. Butchering was never a career plan for me. Ps. Some Christian friends told me that Shaolin is actually a Satanic SS. When you add 666, you get 18, which is the iconic number of Shaolin. ;D ;D
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Post by Evert on Oct 22, 2004 1:12:51 GMT -5
Very interesting Eric, can you tell me more about the White and Green Gang's?
What do you mean with performers, in the light of today? Market business, selling goods, herbs......?
Kind regards,
Evert
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 22, 2004 3:23:08 GMT -5
Very interesting Eric, can you tell me more about the White and Green Gang's? What do you mean with performers, in the light of today? Market business, selling goods, herbs......? Kind regards, Evert Hi Evert, Sorry, don't really have a lot to tell you. All these little bits came from after training tea sessions with my Sifu. - White gang or 'Bai Pang" refers to martial artists / Sifus and etc.. Folks who run Mo Kuns. Regular Kung Fu people like us. - Green gang or "Ching Pang" are the rovers. They are the Dit Da Yuk sellers. Moving from places to places performing their kung fu skills and selling their medicine. They were many of these even in Singapore during my childhood days. With their kerosene lamps and gongs, they would attract a crowd. You see them bend iron bars, crack coconuts and break bricks on their forehead. I remember this one guy who picked up a hot iron rod with his barehands. Some would do kung fu forms etc... According to my Sifu, the Chinese operas kung fu folks are also classified as "green gang". I know of one style of Cantonese kung fu that came out of these operas troope. They are simply known as Canton Nam Kuen - looking at their stuff, they come across as a blend of Hung Gar, Wing Chun and even a bit of Bak Siu Lam. Jacky Chan, Samo Hung, Yuen Hwa and Yuen Pew are from one of these troope. Only they are more Peking opera and not Canton opera. The Beggar Sect (Hakka) is one of these green gang groups. These info came from Ah Teck, my Tai Chor Sifu. If you really need more, I'll talk to him the next time I am back in Singapore.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 22, 2004 8:20:48 GMT -5
The five ancestors are: Hu Teh Ti, Ma Chao Hung, Fang Ta Hung, Li Shih kai, Tsai Teh Chung. They are the founders of our order. By good fortune it chanced that one of them had upon his person the precious triangular seal (*)at the time of the burning of the monastery and thus brought it with him into safety.
(*) The seal:
The seal has a striking analogy among operative Masonsm who decleare that the three grandmasters had each a staff, five foot, four foot and three foot long respectively. With these they were able to make a right angled triangle, and by means of it plot out the ground plan of the building, square, two by one or three by one, as required. This statement is quite true, as I have tested the method laid down. To obtain this secret three men likewise conspired.
Amongst the Chinese the triangle is a sacred emblem standing for Heaven and Earth, which form the two sides, and man, who forms the base, begotten of these two. Heaven is the Father, Earth the mother, and Man, the child. The triangle is made out of the Chinese Characters Yap = to enter, and Yat = one.
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 22, 2004 19:41:17 GMT -5
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 22, 2004 19:49:24 GMT -5
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 22, 2004 19:59:33 GMT -5
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 22, 2004 20:12:54 GMT -5
Hi, These are pictures that Evert sent. I'll let Evert do the talking about these.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 23, 2004 4:58:06 GMT -5
So, we have the Five Ancestors, and in the organization table we find another group find the back known as the Five Tiger generals. The geenerals are: Wu Tian Ching, Hung Thai Sui, Li Shi Chi, Yau Pi Ta and Lin Yung Chao. These five generals were also known as the Five Horse Dealers.
After the funeral of Chan Kan nam, they decided to separate the Tien Ti Hui, dividing it into the five Provincial Grand Lodges, each under one of the Five Monks. The Five horse dealers were placed in charge of five lesser Lodges, but it is the five monks from Shaolin Monastery whom we venerate as the Five Ancestors of our order.
The Five original Provinces of our order were:
Fukien, Kwantung, Yunnan, Hukwang and Chekiang. Their respective banners are: Black, Red, Yellow and carnation, White and Green.
This, O recruits, is the history of the foundation of our Order, and may heaven protect Hung and righteneous spread throughout the Empire……….
Next time about martial arts….
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 23, 2004 6:39:30 GMT -5
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 23, 2004 10:16:55 GMT -5
I did read the “Hung Society: chapter over again, not much about Chan Kan Nam: Below you can read what is said about this leader.
Page 41:
“….Soon after the band met an outlaw, Chan Kan Nam. The reason for his outlawry was that he had killed a man who had molested his wife and child. Owing to his high moral character, great personal strength and undoubted magical powers, the others chose him as their leader, and he subsequently became Master of the First Lodge. It is for this reason that the Master of a Hung Lodge is always called Chan Kan Nam*
*: In some accounts Chan Kan Nam is said to have ben an officier in The board of War, and also a member of the Han Lin college, who prostedted against the massacre of the monks and consequently lost his post.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 23, 2004 12:34:20 GMT -5
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 24, 2004 0:00:30 GMT -5
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