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Post by Nataraya on Dec 3, 2004 2:38:27 GMT -5
Sounds:
Many Cantonese systems are using sounds to express power. Some are linked with specific techniques (Choy Lee Fut), while others are linked with animal and emotions. So pitbull, you are correct, the snake, tiger and crane have their own specific sound. This is expressed in Fu Hoc and Ng Ying Ng Hang Kuen. In general it is said that high pitched sounds are linked with the Dragon, nothing more or less. Like Tze Hou said about Dragon breathing. Its not Dragon breathing but the three parts that he is playing is known as the play field of the Dragon, or Inner play.
In our branch we have the Four Feelings layer. Every feeling/ emotion can be divided in a Yin and Yang stage. For instance: Anger can be divided in aggression/ violence (Yang) and Yin (agitated/ irritated or maybe I must explain “a bit angry”. My excuse for not catching the correct English word. Two different sounds as you can imagine. One sound is a deep MMMM sound, with the mouth closed. Like the first symptoms of a high activity in a volcano. Violence is the exploding sound of that Vulcano. Almost heavy shout coming from a low deep tone to a ‘high’ explosive sound with the mouth open.
From the 17 different sounds in our form, almost the half is linked with emotion. The others are linked with specific actions/ qualities of power. In between also a Tiger sound. Interesting might be one particular sound made during inhalation, a kind of hiccough sound during shooting fingers.
The sound that a person make is a ‘personal‘ sound. We all laugh and cry differently, our body and intention of emotion will be different too. Meaning that these varieties could create a tone like pitbull’s ‘buzzing’ sound? I need to see the posture to link it with a feeling. So I am sorry that I can’t answer the question. I have seen performers doing Tsai Kiu/ Jai Kiu with a buzzing sound, while most make a weeping sound, as described by Tze Hou (funeral).
I think a sound gives a perfect registration of Heaven – Earth – Man concept. Or cooperation of Thought[heaven] – Breathing (Hei/ Chi, sound) and physical action [Earth].
One more little thing. There are several ways of making tones; falling tones, rising tones, high pitched tones. This all have a direct relation with the energy level in your body, and ‘can’ translate the area from which the energy comes from. There are very short tones and long tones. The reader can maybe understand that a hiccough is a very SHORT explosive action, and it is linked with a very short ‘explosive’ power.
Southern Praying Mantis, or I prefer to refer to Hakka Boxing, have a great and unique way of inch power. I was so lucky to have some experience with Pak Mei, Lee Ga and the Lung Ying Mor Kiu way of moving/ action. Simply because my late teacher Jie Kon Siew taught thee forms in his curriculum. Of course they are slightly different in power execution, but certainly manifest the typical signs as seen in SPM.
I am more then pleased to made contact with Eric. Researching the roots of Iron Wire Boxing brought me two friends willing to share with me the tradition of the older Fukien Boxing systems. For the reader, I am not interested in learning any system. No, I like to create an impression about the inter relation of Southern Boxing systems. This is one of the reasons why Eric refer frequently about similarities in Southern – Northern systems. We are trying to see CMA from a different perspective. We both belief that Yong Chun capital did play a central role in Southern Martial Arts.
My excuse for the long reply.
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by essence on Dec 3, 2004 3:01:52 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
With regards to the hiccough sound, do you mean it sounds sort of like a choking sound and is this done when you shoot your arms out with the fingers making the attack?
More on this topic (might as well throw what I know out here so that it can be corrected if wrong), I was taught that the weeping sound, laughing and the MMM should be generated from the Dan Tien. I was also taught to always make sure that my Dan Tien/stomach area is relaxed to avoid injuring myself. Can you explain this a little more in detail for me please Evert?
With regards to the 4 emotions, are these Xi, Nu, Ai and Le (Joyous, Anger, Sadness and Happiness)? If so, I find it very interesting that there emotions related to happiness have 2 different expressions and thus, incorporating the Yin Yang aspect, 4 sounds. Is this correct?
Thank you in advance.
Warmest regards,
Tze Hou
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Post by Nataraya on Dec 3, 2004 3:41:53 GMT -5
Hiccough sound, it is coorect it is connected with Biu Tji or shooting fingers. In our form it is the action after "happiness".
Again your analyses is correct. Joy and Elation are two presentations in which Joy belongs to Happiness Yin, and Elation to happiness Yang. Joy should be seen as an inner smile aspect, or laughing in yourself/ behind your hand. maybe you can imagine such an expression. Elation happens when I am facing Mister Bean or my favorite Faulty Towers with John Cleese.
The energy that belongs to Joy and Elation is different. Joy Yin energy sinks, Elation spreads the energy towards the surface. Look at body postures of rolling people when they laugh. People get cramp and have problems with breathing, and it can evoluates into crying easily. Explaining the problems with Happiness yang.......
Anger have a rising tendency, red face of anger. While sadness goes to the center and is the most dangerous one, especially Yang sadness. This can kill a person becomes it consumes energy.
Tze Hou, you have reached a level which (I am afraid) is to high for you now. You start walking and therefor I like to stimulate you to walk properly first. Before you realize you are flying and miss any foundation to balance your skill.
Okay, I will offer you one more 'headache', the fourth category feeling is "pain".
Dan Tian orientated sounds:
You are correct too. Most of the TSK players, especially from the Wong Fei Hung branch, playes it softly and with merely a Yin quality. I have a big collection of performances, also from several grandmasters of Hung Kuen. But this might be a long story to explain. If I would show you the material then you notice directly that there focus is on nourishing more. Our version, you can observe my clip, is more 'martial' orientated. We really shoot bullets, and our expressions are Yang, also in its extremities. That's the way my late grandmaster and my teacher taught it to us. And i will continue this to my descendants.
The more extremer the expressions and sounds, the higher impact on the organs it will have. The impact of packing is high. You can imagine the role of the diaphragm on the organs? Blood pressure, heart rate.
For instance, the expression Anger Yang (violence. aggression), have a rising impact. truly like a vulcano. If you do not understand the locking of the neck area (sucking in the neck, jaw and teeth action. And to open your shoulder area, then the impact of the energy blow into your head with great power. This can damage function.
But I prefer not to talk about this because people are stating directly that it is fdangerous, which is nonsense! You need a good teacher with experience. he will guide you - step by step - in the direction that it is safe to drive. In that daylight, the expression of extreme feelings/ emotions will follow the path upwards.
For TSK? You can play it in different modus. I can tell you that when I am in my seventies my drive will become lesser and lesser. Then it will be much more of a Hei Kung then of a martial expression. Still I weamt that all of my students do play with the whole range of Yin -Yang sensations and then find there own balance in expressing.
There are many signs and symptoms in which we decide the modus. If you are not in a healthy state (headache, catched a cold) then you need to do your performance differently. And there are moments that you let go, full power, spontaneous action. I am in this stage now....
Kindest regards,
Evert.
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Post by Eric Ling on Dec 3, 2004 4:20:22 GMT -5
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Post by Nataraya on Dec 3, 2004 5:02:29 GMT -5
Yes, what to say about these pictures? Mainland postures with accent on aesthetics.
The third picture is VERY close to Tai Ji Mei Hua Tang Lang way of Boxing. Especially some postures in Ba Zhou (Ma Wei Ling version) is very close.
Second picture is close the the Monkey postures we use in Sap Ying Kuen (Ten Animal Fist). Fourth seems to be a typical Sanzhan posture. While the first and last are nice photo's shots, standing on an edge. With the detail extra that the ending salute is seen much more in LoHan Boxing, and found back in some Choy Lee Fut styles (if I remember it well).
I am sorry, it didn't trigger any typical Crane respond. Eric maybe you can reflect some enthusiastic sensations on this? Shine some light obn the typical tradition as seen in Fukien Boxing?
Looking forwards,
Evert.
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Post by Eric Ling on Dec 3, 2004 5:15:14 GMT -5
Yes, what to say about these pictures? Mainland postures with accent on aesthetics. The third picture is VERY close to Tai Ji Mei Hua Tang Lang way of Boxing. Especially some postures in Ba Zhou (Ma Wei Ling version) is very close. Second picture is close the the Monkey postures we use in Sap Ying Kuen (Ten Animal Fist). Fourth seems to be a typical Sanzhan posture. While the first and last are nice photo's shots, standing on an edge. With the detail extra that the ending salute is seen much more in LoHan Boxing, and found back in some Choy Lee Fut styles (if I remember it well). I am sorry, it didn't trigger any typical Crane respond. Eric maybe you can reflect some enthusiastic sensations on this? Shine some light obn the typical tradition as seen in Fukien Boxing? Looking forwards, Evert. EXCELLENT Evert!! I know I can’t fool you. Both are Wushu products. All forms but no substance. This is exactly what I have been trying to say all along:- It might look, feel and even taste like the real thing – but it is NOT. Hahahaha, you are okay Evert. Cheers. |
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Post by essence on Dec 3, 2004 6:59:59 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
Ah I have let this get to my head. I think I will heed your advice and practice what my Sifu has taught me and concentrate more on the basics. Thank you for reminding me to keep myself in check.
Gratefully,
Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Dec 3, 2004 8:51:00 GMT -5
Hi, A Crane sequence from Evert. Want to tell us more about this Evert?  |
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Post by Nataraya on Dec 4, 2004 3:31:07 GMT -5
I am getting older, because I thought I replied to the Fu Hoc sequence of Lee Chan Wo’s student? Probably I did throw the reply away. Don’t laugh Eric, soon you will overcome the same symptoms. Hair, teeth, brain cells,……..
The reason is that I did add this sequence was because of Tze Hou’s reply on the Crane head performance of the late Chung Cheok Tow. These differences might be confusing you, but I LOVE them. I label them as the handsign of a branch, and maybe of that teacher. It makes you able to recognize lineage.
Lee Chan Wo – a student of Mok Gwai Lam (WFH’s fourth wife), is teaching in HK. This is one of his students. Very solid and nice skill for such a young man. I am more then pleased to have material of the most important Hung Kuen skills.
What I do like about the blocking hand posture, is that it really looks like a Crane head. So far, he is the only school that I have seen doing this.
The application – from Chung Cheok Tow and Lee Chan Wo, are clearly different. But realize that the answer should be found in the phoenix eye strike to Fook Fu Yuet.
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by essence on Dec 4, 2004 5:30:06 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
I have been pondering these pictures as well and holding my reply, but since you raised the points I was pondering, maybe I should ask you for the answers.
1st and 2nd pictures:
I notice that his fingers are all open and not compacted into a Crane's beak, especially noticable in the 2nd picture. Is that correct?
2nd last picture:
This to me looks like a Wood technique, also taught to me as Gong Kiu. Is the Phoenix Eye Fist in this technique special only to this branch or is it common in Hung Gar? I was taught as a normal punch accompanying the block.
Last picture:
This looks to me like Leading the Horse to the Stable, I almost commented on this, but held back once I noticed the Crane's beak formed by the blocking hand. Another thing I noticed was the right hand blocks but in Leading Horse to the Stable, the left hand blocks. Have I mistaken this technique? Is this just a posture to launch the Crane's beak?
Warmest regards,
Tze Hou
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Post by Nataraya on Dec 4, 2004 5:47:50 GMT -5
Good observations Tze Hou, it looks indeed if all the fingers are straight. But it could also be the shot because it is a photo during a speady action? So I am afraid that i can not give you an answer. Just keep it in mind, who knows....in the near future you will get an answer?
The last two pictures are Crane heads done with a phoenix eye fist. So far I saw all Hung Kuen linegaes do this. Your understanding of the Element Wood, is a correct one. I play this crane skill also as 'wood', but the phoenix eye give a different penetrating taste to the wood punch.
Last picture is the second Crane head before falling into "Dragon Wags its tail".
Eric, are there any Heart Penetrating Kick (Chuan Sam Geuk" in Crane Boxing?
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by essence on Dec 4, 2004 5:59:41 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
Are the last 2 pictures the same techniques repeated on opposite sides? Because I haven't been taught Fu Hock as yet, I am unfamiliar with the form and as such, misunderstand the techniques. Thank you for clarifying it for me.
Warmest regards,
Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Dec 4, 2004 21:42:15 GMT -5
Hi, We all hear Evert talks about "Ng Long Paat Kua Kuan" or "Wu Lang Bak Qua Koon" in Mandarin. So, some pictures of this famous Hung Gar's Pole form. I know that quite a few different Cantonese styles do this form, either similar or varied to different degrees. In fact "Paat Kua Kuan" is a very common name in TCMA that you'll find in Cantonese, Hakka and Fukien systems.   |
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Post by essence on Dec 4, 2004 21:50:08 GMT -5
Good day Evert and Eric.
Thank you for those pictures. As yet, I have not been taught the form, but to me, this form looks utilises a lot of spear techniques. I also noticed that the pole is thinner and longer. Is this a misconception?
Warmest regards,
Tze Hou
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Post by essence on Dec 4, 2004 22:01:03 GMT -5
Good day Evert.
I have a question regarding the Sei Ping Ma which has been bugging me no end and I hope you can offer me some advise regarding this.
My Sifu has taught the Sei Ping Ma to me as such:
Opening sequence: Legs together, move heels out so they form a 90 degree angle, then move toes out so they form 90 degree, then heel again and then move the toes "half" so that the feet are parallel.
From this position, sink into your Sei Ping Ma, keeping back straight, tail bone tucked and knees rotated outwards.
The thing which has been bugging me is that this position is hard, even after one year of training myself, I still have difficulty holding a deep Sei Ping Ma for more than 5 minutes.
Now I have noticed that in many pictures, GM Lam Sai Wing, and even Shaolin pictures, the Sei Ping Ma is never so low, also, the toes point outwards. What does this mean? I believe that GM Lam would have wanted as accurate a reproduction as possible as he was trying to spread Hung Gar, and Shaolin's pictures would also have been as accurate as they could ensure.
Thus, I have been pondering if the in-soles of the feet should be parallel, as pointing the toes out does make holding the Ma more comfortable and to a point, easier. Do I continue doing it with parallel feet or try pointing the toes out?
Warmest regards,
Tze Hou
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