FRAUD IN MARTIAL ARTS

[Suhana LIM]

Da jia hao
Thanks to "instant mentality" , people become impatient to achieve the highest level in training the arts. One will does anything and everything, even this mean via DISHONEST and IMMORAL avenues. No wonder we have so many fake martial artists.
I would like to hear your experience encountered with such individual. Cheers.

[Eric Ling]

Nin Hao,


Frauds – there are plenty around.

Remember the old saying “hang jia yi chu shao, jiu zhi you mei you” – exactly the reason why Martin Watts, my crane Di Di, always insist on seeing you move first. In person or on videos before he engages you. Go to his website, he talks about visiting other clubs and the deal is always; show me what you got and I will show you mine before we talk.

And this is not just Martin’s peculiar mode. We do that all the times. We visited other clubs and an impromptu performance would take place. What better way to get to know each other in kung fu than this?

When I first came to Kuching, I did my obligatory round of calling on all the Fuzhou White Crane schools to pay my respect and unfailingly, I would be asked to do Kung Fu. Sometimes even to “cross hands”. The traditional way to ascertain your credentials.

The beautiful thing is off course, they reciprocated and I get to watch some “superb” old stuff.

A case of “bu da bu xiang shi” at work?

This works among Chinese because the old “experts” are able to verify quickly and easily. You cannot hoodwink these folks. In the Western world, a good story teller could get away with most anything. Like I mentioned before;

• Put on a traditional costume.
• Do some exotic moves.
• Read some books on Kung Fu and mouth some gibberish with sprinklings of incomprehensible Mandarin terminologies that in reality make no sense to us Chinese.

And you could simply pass yourself off as the real McCoy. Many are successful with this modus operandi.

Lineage – the critical piece of our credentials.

“Ming Men Zheng Pai” – there is no undisclosed styles or teachers in legitimate Kung Fu. This is perhaps something that non-Chinese fails to understand. Every proper Kung Fu style has an archived record of descendants. If it is not found in your Kung Fu kwons, you should find it in the clans associations. Or even in the family’s name association. A documentation must exist somewhere.

Even the so-called “village” styles kung fu are recorded. I treat “secret” kung fu dubiously!

I have with me a White Crane family tree that stretches all the way back to Fang Chi Niang. This family tree chart is sanctioned by White Crane families everywhere from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong to the various countries in SE Asia where White Crane is transmitted.

So you see, Suhana, it is not easy to “fake it” in White Crane. The updated tree should include legitimate non-Chinese names who are rightful descendants of the White Crane streams. I have a odd feeling Mr. Watts would be making his debut soon.

The chart comprises Fukien and Fuzhou White Crane lineages.

The White Crane world is really a small one. All the families are known to each other and many are in contact one way or another.

So when we have a self-styled “expert” popping up – a quick check is all it takes to establish authenticity.

And this is what we want to do to sustain integrity in our transmission lines.

Don’t get me wrong, you can sell anything you want to your willing buyers. It is really none of our business.

Just don’t claim anything that is not honest especially invoking names of White Crane Masters past or present. The bona fide descendents will take you to task.

"Tien Xia Wu Lin Pen Shi Yi Jia" - We are all brothers and sisters!

Except maybe that "dog" that is lurking around somewhere in the forum - sorry Pitbull hehehe ;D ;D ;D

He is more a pet.

[Suhana LIM]

Eric ni hao

Imagine this.
I want to people to "know" me as Pencak Silat Maha Guru (Grand Master). First thing I will do is I will dress in traditional Indonesian costume. Then I took my pictures in several pencak silat stances. Next, I find an old guy in the village, ask him to acompany me in the pictures with mountain and rice fields at the background. Bahasa Indonesia is not a problem, so I won't find difficulties in the pencak silat terms.
Then I will "compose" a nice biography complete with the complicated lineage or family tree. Of course I will order several videos and books about pencak silat, to make sure I know a bit about it. Last but not least, I will ask someone to create a flashy and convincing website and launch it. Plus put an advertising in martial arts magazines. And the "transformation" is complete.
I am now the Maha Guru (Grandmaster) in Pencak Silat,
I don't care if I really am or just in my imagination, as long as I can fool prospective students and get money and fame as well. But of course I only will do this in the countries where not many people know about pencak silat ;D ;D ;D Cheers.

[brad pitbull]

ill be biting your leg! hehehe

there are lots of them everywhere...we actually have some here in the philippines ;-)

there is one fraudster in indonesia that i thnk should be 'visited' one way or the other ;-) i think suhana know him hehehe he is his best friend ;-)

and yes...like purebred dogs..pedigree is everything almost :-) with an improper pedigree...u get something closer to a mutt/mongrel...

[Suhana LIM]

Pitbull ni hao
I don't know who are you talking about I always believe it's good to assosiate yourself to an HONEST people. By doing that, you will always does your best to be honest all the time. It's a good karma. The other way round, if you be friend with dishonest individuals, one day you will become one of them It's a bad karma. Cheers.

[Suhana LIM]

Suhana said:

Eric ni hao

Imagine this.
I want to people to "know" me as Pencak Silat Maha Guru (Grand Master). First thing I will do is I will dress in traditional Indonesian costume. Then I took my pictures in several pencak silat stances. Next, I find an old guy in the village, ask him to acompany me in the pictures with mountain and rice fields at the background. Bahasa Indonesia is not a problem, so I won't find difficulties in the pencak silat terms.
Then I will "compose" a nice biography complete with the complicated lineage or family tree. Of course I will order several videos and books about pencak silat, to make sure I know a bit about it. Last but not least, I will ask someone to create a flashy and convincing website and launch it. Plus put an advertising in martial arts magazines. And the "transformation" is complete.
I am now the Maha Guru (Grandmaster) in Pencak Silat,
I don't care if I really am or just in my imagination, as long as I can fool prospective students and get money and fame as well. But of course I only will do this in the countries where not many people know about pencak silat ;D ;D ;D Cheers.

[nothingness]

In America, you will also need to give yourself a 10th Dan anda a rainbow-color belt as a prove that you know everything.

Then you start to give an online instruction, selling videos, and plagiarizing books from others to sell your own book.

However, when someone challenges you to your Kwoon/Dojo, you will surely relly on your dearest life-saving kata: "Ku Ichi Ichi" or translated to be "Call 911" .

[Suhana LIM]

Da jia ni men hao
It's very sad that most of us only attracted to something flashy. If you said that you are 8,9 dan or more, if you mentioned that you are expert, grandmaster, and other self praised title, then people will listen and or look highly on you. No matter you are true or just a fake. Cheers.

[Suhana LIM]

nothingness said:

In America, you will also need to give yourself a 10th Dan anda a rainbow-color belt as a prove that you know everything.

Then you start to give an online instruction, selling videos, and plagiarizing books from others to sell your own book.

However, when someone challenges you to your Kwoon/Dojo, you will surely relly on your dearest life-saving kata: "Ku Ichi Ichi" or translated to be "Call 911" .

Nothingness ni hao
KU ICHI ICHI kata is the right kata for FRAUD, if I can add maybe the most appropriate hwa qian for FRAUD is CIU MING A (Yelling for help in Chinese) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Eric Ling]

Hi fellow con artists,

A very good day to all!

I have found another money spinning enterprise, offering “unusual” sounding forms names and descriptions for sales.

You see, many con men – ahem sorry, Sifus, have troubles cooking up genuine sounding Chinese form names and description – you know all that infernal jin talk. So, I am giving them a one-stop instant solution package guaranteed to boost their class intake in no time.

I can also do this in Bahasa Melayu and Japanese.

Currently available are these crane forms :-

• Zhou he quan
• Fei tien he
• Sheng he quan
• Qi lin he
• He niao niao
• Nazha shen he quan
• Feng he quan
• Jia he quan


All you need to do now is to watch some videos / refer to some books or just plagiarize and add movements to the names.

If questioned too hard, just claim that you are a impressionist artist – these are you versions of old form.

All major credit cards accepted.

[Suhana LIM]

Eric ni hao

I want to complaint to you. Why do you follow my trick? If you want to transformed yourself as a (fake) master, please do it in another forum. Not here please, because I've just put my "trap" and hasn't catch any fish (student). I only accept cash, and you now trying to outdo me by mentioning credit card accepted.
Please show some decency, even among frauds we should have honours. You cover I disagree and I will cover yours. Deal?
As a Maha Guru in pencak silat, I offer you the most rare and ancient forms, only inherited to me. They are as follows:

Kutu Loncat Sana Sini
Kamu Bohong Sana Sini
Monyet Loncat Sana Sini
Harimau Galak Turun Gunung

Please be aware, this offer run out fast. First come first learn. Booked your place now. Upon completion of the training, you'll get the certificate beautifully framed and a complete of Indonesian-English dictitionary. And of course a photo session with me the Maha Guru (Grandmaster). ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Eric Ling]

Aha Suhana,

Must work fast if you wanna make big bucks.

I am also a high ranking teacher – too high to mention here.

I spent many years training “behind closed doors” with a teacher – cannot disclose his name – top secret.

I do many lethal techniques in my system – nobody has got them I assure you. Just to give you a quick impression, I do a special kind of jin training that guarantees to knock cold anybody with just one contact – my special “Shen Gong” jin.

This highly sought after knowledge was passed to me by a family in the remote Alishan corner of Taiwan – again I cannot mention names here – they are the last of the line and I was very fortunate to have been accepted to continue this wonderful art.

I don’t mind telling you that we belong to the “Pien Shu Men” family.

And yes, you can expect my website soon – will be an absolute sensation I tell you.

I will place Chinese characters everywhere and pictures of myself in stunning poses. And I will present my intense philosophical exposition of the various jins. You see I am not too concerned about critics because everything I say will be bendy. If disputed, I could just bend it. This is the real Kung Fu my dear friend.

All in all, I am not too worried about being found out. There are many frauds and I have developed a very witty strategy.

I will go on to forums and harass these frauds – what a good facade, go on the attack first and sell myself as champion for the truth.

Better still, align myself with the good guys and my cover is complete.

HaHaHa am I brainy or what ?

And oh yes, for a very limited time only, I am giving special discounts for my :-

Silat Monyet Gila from Surabaya.

Order this within the next 3 days, you will also get absolutely free :-

Kata Gokishu - the long lost 5 hands kata from FuChin village in Fuzhou. This is the missing kata that links Hakutsuru ken to Jia He Quan.

Try to top this !!!

[Suhana LIM]

Eric ni hao

;D ;D ;D ;D You are really nutty master ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I agree with you, if we are exposed, we just bend the fact and if challenged we must bend it further. So basically the skill of "bending" the facts is the essence if you want to survive in the world of fraud. Ooops, slipped of tounge, not fraud but master.

I don't know that you also know "Silat Monyet Gila from Surabaya." It's only known to close knitted circle. You must have "take" it from the forum you own. I was told by one of my comrades (fellow fraud ooops master) that the easiest and simplest way to gather information about the arts is by running forum. He can easily ears drops and collects what is important for supporting his fraud ooops master status. Cheers. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

PS: Do you aware that Suharto also the master of "bending" the fact and reality. Everytime he must attends the court session, miracously he will become "ill" and unable to attend the sessions.

[Eric Ling]

Very well said my friend, very well said.

You are truely the "Enlightened" one.

But you know what , we say in Chinese :-

Paper cannot cover fire.


These frauds will get burned I promise you. Like Pitbull said earlier - must be "visited" for giving Chinese Kung Fu a bad name !!!

[Suhana LIM]

Eric said:

Very well said my friend, very well said.

You are truely the "Enlightened" one.

But you know what , we say in Chinese :-

Paper cannot cover fire.


These frauds will get burned I promise you. Like Pitbull said earlier - must be "visited" for giving Chinese Kung Fu a bad name !!!

Eric ni hao

It's very true that PAPER CANNOT COVER FIRE.

That's why I always remind myself to keep on practicing THE FIVE VIRTUES-HONOR,RESPECT,INTEGRITY,LOYALTY AND HUMILITY.
When I am HONEST with myself and others, when I am respecting those around me, I am sure I will get the same in return. With HONESTY, you can't go wrong. The Chinese have a saying "zhen jin bu pa huo." - "Real gold is not afraid of fire." Cheers.