WC Forms and meanings

[PaulH]

Hi guys,

I find Buddhist and Taoist symbols and ideas throughout in SLT, CK, and BJ. So is WC designed more or less a tool of enlightenment or is it born as a need for fighting tools to train higher combat skills - a more commonly held view today? Any historical insight would be appreciated! =)

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Paul!


Certainly I am not qualified to discuss enlightenment via WCK but certainly we can see that the art falls into the "Natural" process or ways. With the end result being something soft, flowing, adaptive and part of your normal body ways. Just as the Tao Te Ching says: Hard is Dead, Soft is Alive.

The sets, be it SLT, SLT/CK/BJ or Leung Jan's 12 Jongs are IMO a process of cultivation/development/shaping of your body to reproduce a specific Ging. Part of those platforms are your alphabet and other stuff.


Have to run!

[CEB]

PaulH said:

Hi guys,

I find Buddhist and Taoist symbols and ideas throughout in SLT, CK, and BJ. So is WC designed more or less a tool of enlightenment or is it born as a need for fighting tools to train higher combat skills - a more commonly held view today? )

Yes!

[PaulH]

Hi Jim,

So far I see that whipping and short power are given in WCK. Shock power and Scared (Explosive?) power are less commonly known. Are there more available by the introduction of the forms or 12 jongs? Thanks!

[kksdad]

Hi Paul,
I think their prevalence in WC is more likely a reflection of how Taoist & Buddhist ideas & symbols permate Chinese culture as opposed to WC being designed as a tool for enlightenment.
Regards,
Chris

PaulH said:

Hi guys,

I find Buddhist and Taoist symbols and ideas throughout in SLT, CK, and BJ. So is WC designed more or less a tool of enlightenment or is it born as a need for fighting tools to train higher combat skills - a more commonly held view today? Any historical insight would be appreciated! =)

[PaulH]

Hi Chris,

And there's also your view... Lot of undercurrents going beneath the surface. Life is full of interesting venues. Thanks! =)

[garuda]

PaulH said:

Hi Chris,

And there's also your view... Lot of undercurrents going beneath the surface. Life is full of interesting venues. Thanks! =)

Paul,

If you get YY to translate the Heaven letter Zhuang...Small letter Zhuang of the Emei !2 Zhuang....

Then the fun is just starting.

Remeber the snake?

Well, Snake is about AWARENESS and it links right into Buddhism's cultivation Via the 12 Zhuang.


However, once you cross the tier 1, then one passed the point of no return... IMHHO


An old song :
...over and over I wisper your name, over and over I ... I see the light...

any body knows this song?

[PaulH]

How long a time lies in one little word? O YY Lee where are thou? =)

[yy]

gee... what are friends for!

translating E12P is such a monumental task! let's called dfl

the snake, the snake, where are you snake?

Paul, at a minimal level, the first section of SNT/SLT mimicks the snake/worm movements in E12J. The Huen Sau, the Fook/Wu cycles, and the work-the-left-hand-first-rule in the form; all echos specific sections of E12J. There are other sections of the Jong that resemble "signature" movements in CK and BJ.

But again, all things come from the "little" details.

[garuda]

An old song :
...over and over I wisper your name, over and over I ... I see the light...


anyone knows this song?

[PaulH]

Thanks, YY! Of course this just begs my next enquiry toward the 12 Emei Jongs. What are they and what does one get out from training them? =)

P.S. G, I don't know the name of the song ... Anyone else's aware of this song? =)

[yy]

PaulH said:

What are they and what does one get out from training them? =)

after training them, your body turns blue, your head has an red auroa around with stars hovering within. Your keyboard turns into a lotus seat. See, Hendrik done it, just look at his picture.

And.. what did u get after training the first section of SNT/SLT?

(PS, the stars within Hendrik's red auroa are in fact little flys that hover around him, they got enlightened and developed a yellow auroa after listening to Hendrik's songs )

[PaulH]

Brilliant, Lee! G. may have classic Qi Gongnosis. The symptoms of its red and blue marks are all over this! We may speak to a spectre with many names here... =)

[garuda]

yy said:

the snake, the snake, where are you snake?

check the ssssnake! of Chow xing-tze in the Kung fu hustle Trailer. hahahaa

[yy]

As I have read there is this "Chum" (as in our Chum Kiu) and "Chee" that come from 清淨道論

Here is a paragraph on "Chum" and "Chee" interpreted from this Buddhist literature, I am sure Hendrik can translate it for you in 2 minutes Paul!

and Hendrik u watch out for the mature lady's Lion's Roar

cbs.ntu.edu.tw/gem_browse.php/fpath=gem/brd/Buddhism/G/F00100MG&thread=9

１：初禪。1.1：近行定與安止定的差異。上述三類保護似相的方法，
從近行定修行到定止定，不只鎮伏五蓋，且具足五種支分(尋、伺、喜
、樂、定，參見下面對初禪的規定 )。這時的心相並不是實相，只是定
心相應的境界，切莫誤以為開悟之類。近行定與安止定的區別，前者
的禪支不穩固，猶如幼兒學走路，屢屢跌倒在地上，後者就如有力的
人，可以持續穩固地站立。四十種業處有十種只能達到近行定，不得
定止定，它的內容是八隨念(十隨念中除了身至念與念呼吸 )、食厭想
、四界差別。
1. 2：初禪的規定，就是離開五蓋且具備五種支分。五蓋是欲貪(五
欲的貪 )、瞋恨、昏沉(昏昧 )與睡眠(欲睡 )、掉舉(浮躁不安穩 )與惡作(
後悔所作的惡行 )、疑(懷疑 )，詳見不善心所(第六章第四節 )。初禪的
五支是尋、伺、喜、樂、定。尋是尋求，心專注擊觸於所緣，它可以
鎮伏五蓋的惛沉與睡眠；伺是伺察，心繼續深細考察，它可以鎮伏五
蓋的疑。初禪的尋與伺沒有渴望求知的衝動，不是豁然開解的恣意，
它是依於澄淨與安住。尋伺的差別，尋就如擊鐘之初的響，伺猶如鐘
的餘韻。尋又如鳥振翅上飛，伺如下降的平滑。喜是喜悅歡喜所緣，
可以細分為五階段，小喜身上的毫毛豎立，毛孔都感到歡喜；剎那喜
猶如電光剎那剎那而起；繼起喜猶如海岸的波浪，於身上數數現起而
消逝；踴躍喜是很強的，全身踴動；遍滿喜遍身內外歡喜，猶如吹脹
的氣泡。遍滿喜成就才是成就初禪的特點，喜可以鎮伏五蓋的瞋。樂
是愉悅安樂，遍滿喜成就後引發身心輕安，成就身心兩種樂，安詳地
享受喜才是樂，它可以鎮伏五蓋的掉舉與惡作。初禪的喜與樂不是豪
爽的快感、不是酣暢的舒適，它是平靜清涼。喜樂的差別，喜是行蘊，
樂屬受蘊；喜是對於所緣的滿足，樂是享受獲得的滋味；喜猶如沙漠
困乏的旅人見到了林水，樂如受用水。定是安住於一境，可以鎮伏欲
貪；它是禪支的主要特點，但是成就初禪必須餘四支均衡兼用。
２：二禪是尋伺止息，內淨心專一故，無尋無伺，定生喜樂，第二禪
具足住。自在熟悉初禪才能修習二禪，否則驟修二禪反而會退失初禪
。
３：三禪是離喜的妙樂，而住於捨、念與正知，成就捨念樂住，第三禪
具足住。
４：四禪是由斷樂及由斷苦，並先已滅喜憂故，不苦不樂故，捨念清淨
，第四禪具足住。