theory, process, and conditioning of Short power

[garuda]

So, what is the theory, conditioning, and process to develop the Wing Chun Kuen Short power?


Anyone care to share and compare notes?

Eric, Nataraya, olddragon, Suhana, KPM, essence, seeker.... care to take a bite?

[sihing]

Toong said:

So, what is the theory, conditioning, and process to develop the Wing Chun Kuen Short power?


Anyone care to share and compare notes?

Eric, Nataraya, olddragon, Suhana, KPM, essence, seeker.... care to take a bite?

The Theory behind the development of Short power? Learn to generate incredible speed between two short points, backed up by a strong structure in the hand, wrist, arm, shoulder and body (root), thereby enabling more than just the arm to thrust out but the body to be behind it to add to the power burst over a short distance.

Conditioning & Process of Short Power Generation?
Practicing of proper form first with no preconceived notion from the body to try to generate false power, therefore one must "play the role" of one with short power to generate it later on in the progression. So, in the beginning of learning it you will feel like you are just extending your arm with no real power output, but over time and with various drills alone and with a partner you will generate the power from short range, also reinforced with a mental intent (to lead the chi) of short power generation.

The process has to be started with and backed up by the structure of the tools used in the act of releasing short power, either with the arms or legs, or while striking or grabbing/pulling or deflecting, because a strike is a deflection and a deflection is a strike, to which both can be come a grab/pull. The next part of the process is increasing intensity & speed while striking the air and soon after harder and harder solid objects. Pads, Heavy bags, wall mounted bags (filled with various things), People with protection, Wooden Dummies fulfill the surface requirements here. Eventually you have to learn to strike/deflect/grab/pull while moving and not in stationary stances, and then you have to learn to feel the energy of the opponent and develop contact and non contact reflexes to learn timing and distancing so your tools will come out in the right time in the right space with the right energy. Sooner or later it will then be a part of you, like second nature and you will have it for life as long as you are involved with the Wing Chun, with gradual improvement over the years as you refine it more and more with better skill and wisdom with the Art.


James

[garuda]

My fantasy is that it will be great

If one who know how to ride this bike will also automatically know all about Short power generation, conditioning, process.....

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and may be my wish and dream and fantasy, might come true and all the secret of short power comes within the easy ride?

I will pray Santa for this present this Xmas !!!!

[essence]

Good day Toong Xie Huang Yau Shr.

As I am not a Wing Chun student, please pardon me if what I feel is necessary in learning to generate short power is wrong.

Short power or the fabled One Inch Punch was introduced to me by Bruce Lee when I was just a little boy. I was amazed at the power generated by such little movement, and until recently, was under the impression that such techniques were only available to Wing Chun practitioners.

However, after I started my Hung Gar lessons, I found inch power within Hung Gar itself. In fact, it permeates all, if not most styles of kung fu. In my experience, inch power relates to Chun Kiu or Inch Bridge in Hung Gar.

I was taught that to generate this power, one must not look towards the physical. The physical body creates restriction as such, that it hampers the flow of energy. Rather, look towards allowing the body to be natural. This means coordination of movement and relaxation.

As in most Hung Gar techniques, the movement is leg, body, hand. From the stance, we generate our power which is amplified through the body (hip/waist), and through the relaxation of the shoulder and elbow, allows the hand to shoot out. The relaxation also allows the Chi to flow to the hand instead of restricting the flow of Chi through muscular contraction.

Many Tai Chi and Baqua demonstrations I have seen also shows the practitioner in a very relaxed state before a massive explosion. The demonstrator does not draw back his arm, the arm shoots from where it is. True short power IMHO.

I hope I have not offended, and I humbly apologise if I have.

Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

[KPM]

Toong said:

So, what is the theory, conditioning, and process to develop the Wing Chun Kuen Short power?


Anyone care to share and compare notes?

Eric, Nataraya, olddragon, Suhana, KPM, essence, seeker.... care to take a bite?

--This topic was started on another thread. My comments are there. Should I cut and paste?

Keith

[Eric Ling]

Toong said:

So, what is the theory, conditioning, and process to develop the Wing Chun Kuen Short power?


Anyone care to share and compare notes?

Eric, Nataraya, olddragon, Suhana, KPM, essence, seeker.... care to take a bite?

Hahaha, I actually miss this invitation to bite.

Maybe I am projecting a wrong image about myself because I am being asked to comment on Wing Chun short punch here.

Firstly, I don’t do Wing Chun much less the “one-inch” punch.

Secondly, without offending anyone I hope, I am not really a pursuer of this skill. I know this is a highly valued skill set in many styles but, sorry to say, not in any of the styles that I am personally involved in.

Any comments I put forth, therefore, would not be helping this subject any.

[garuda]

Hello Everyone,

since it is a technical discussion, Essence, dont worry of offended anyone. nothing personal. Feel free and relax.

cheer

[garuda]

migrate from the discussion:

Wing Chun Principles/Techniques

KPM said:

--- You don't "hold" tension prior to the strike, but muscle tension is required to produce the strike.

Then that is muscle generated power isnt it?

With muscle tension required to produce the strike there will be innertial momentum resistance and delay time needs to accelerate to produce the strike. Isnt it?

So do you think is it a push? or is it an issue? is it a spearing or is it release the bow string to let the arrow go?

[KPM]

Toong said:

migrate from the discussion:

Wing Chun Principles/Techniques

Then that is muscle generated power isnt it?

With muscle tension required to produce the strike there will be innertial momentum resistance and delay time needs to accelerate to produce the strike. Isnt it?

So do you think is it a push? or is it an issue? is it a spearing or is it release the bow string to let the arrow go?

---How will you move your arm to strike....or even stand upright....without involving some muscle tension? Doesn't a bowstring involve tension? If you were completely relaxed you would be laying on the ground like a heap of jelly. :-) The amount of tension in the body is relative....it is there....always....some muscle tone exists. Like I said before, tense enough to produce the strike, no more and no less, and don't hold excessive tension prior to the strike. It doesn't have to be so esoteric. Most things come down to biomechanics. Its just a matter of learning the proper and most efficient biomechanics to produce what we want and then developing a way to train them well. If you have tips along these lines, then I'm all ears! :-)

Keith

[garuda]

KPM said:

---How will you move your arm to strike....or even stand upright....without involving some muscle tension? Doesn't a bowstring involve tension? If you were completely relaxed you would be laying on the ground like a heap of jelly. :-) The amount of tension in the body is relative....it is there....always....some muscle tone exists. Like I said before, tense enough to produce the strike, no more and no less, and don't hold excessive tension prior to the strike. It doesn't have to be so esoteric. Most things come down to biomechanics. Its just a matter of learning the proper and most efficient biomechanics to produce what we want and then developing a way to train them well. If you have tips along these lines, then I'm all ears! :-)

Keith

Great arguement.

However, it is still pointing toward muscle and biomechanics (which is a broad spectum of stuffs can means lots and lots of things and BTW how which ... ).

It doesnt tell anything about How and with what the power generated. Beside muscle isnt it?

I dont have tips and my question to all is always. do you spear or do you release and let it shoot out? Tensing the muscle means spear out.



Hey everyone here, share Share! your view is important!

[garuda]

essence said:

However, after I started my Hung Gar lessons, I found inch power within Hung Gar itself. In fact, it permeates all, if not most styles of kung fu. In my experience, inch power relates to Chun Kiu or Inch Bridge in Hung Gar.

I was taught that to generate this power, one must not look towards the physical. The physical body creates restriction as such, that it hampers the flow of energy. Rather, look towards allowing the body to be natural. This means coordination of movement and relaxation.

As in most Hung Gar techniques, the movement is leg, body, hand. From the stance, we generate our power which is amplified through the body (hip/waist), and through the relaxation of the shoulder and elbow, allows the hand to shoot out. The relaxation also allows the Chi to flow to the hand instead of restricting the flow of Chi through muscular contraction.


Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

Tze Hou,

Can you please explaim how to do Chun kiu of Hung Gar? how is the move looks like and how is it perfrom?
and what is the purpose of the Chun Kiu?

How do you think the Hung Gar Chun Kiu similar or different with the Wing Chun short power?

according to speculation, Iron Wire set design up by/ from TIT Kiu Sam ?


Cheers

[essence]

Good day Toong Xie Huang Yau Shr.

Unfortunately, I am not able to elaborate more on TSK as I haven't even learnt the form. From what I know, Tit Kiu Sam was taught this form by a monk, maybe the other resident Hung Gar players would care to comment on this?

Chun Kiu, or Inch Bridge, in Hung Gar seeks to teach short power. It is a Kiu Sau Faht, and, IMHO, I believe any movement which requires the player to explode from a short distance carries the essence of Chun Kiu. If you must seek a movement to visualise this, imagine using a Spear Hand into the throat straight after a punch to the face. Don't retract the punch, drop the fist, open the hand and spear into throat, this could be taken to be an example of Chun Kiu.

I am unable to comment on Chun Kiu's relation to Wing Chun's principles as I only have limited knowledge of Wing Chun.

Regarding the deeper concepts of this Kiu Sau Faht, I am unable to explain as I am but a young player in this system.

Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

[PaulH]

Hendrik Aloha! =D

The only effortless power is that of the mind or intention.

Cheers,

[garuda]

Essence,

Thank you and appreicate for your post!


Pual,

But even thinking needs lots of energy so how is it mind and intention effortless?

[PaulH]

If one has a weak mind or little or no intent, I am sceptical that the person can produce any damaging short power at all.

A mere thought scales and penetrates through steep mountains where hands fail, and it travels to distant universes in a blink of my eye... How much energy would it takes you to do such fantastic feats? =)