KPM
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Post by KPM on Jan 24, 2005 20:10:57 GMT -5
Maybe I can get some discussion going on the "inch" or "short" power. :-) First question.....what do you do with your pelvis? Is it rolled forward and "locked in" in order to produce "body unity" between the torso and the legs? Or is it "floating" and relaxed?
Second question.....where does your power originate from? Sure, we are standing upright so all power comes from the ground. But what is the engine driving the transmission? Is it the knees? Or is it the kua (waist/hips/pelvis)?
Third question.....what "dynamic" do you hit with? Is it like a "spinning bar", or it is like a "whip"?
Fourth question....can you stand in front of the Mok Jong in YGKYM with your palms flat on the trunk of the dummy and really "rock" the dummy without lifting your hands or moving your feet?
The "inch" or "short" power is not just a parlor trick used to impress people in demos. In fact, if the person on the receiving end is thrown back several feet it was probably more of a push than a punch, and not the "short" power at all!
Keith
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Post by Om on Jan 25, 2005 11:32:54 GMT -5
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garuda
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Post by garuda on Jan 28, 2005 2:01:41 GMT -5
silk floating in the air for sensing.
shocking with horizonatal wave to transfer.
Using the Vertical wave for generation.
stepping on the brake of a bicycle to issue.
A touch can be sensing
A touch can be applied Yee to read
A touch can be applied Jing to check
A touch can be using force to puch
A touch Can be issuing Jing.
Until A touch has 5 choices what's good is principle and technics?
since the body has transform into awareness.
Which part of body is not a hand?
how much one can do?
where have one arrived?
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sihing
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Wing Chun Instructor-training since 1988
Posts: 16
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Post by sihing on Feb 1, 2005 1:18:26 GMT -5
Maybe I can get some discussion going on the "inch" or "short" power. :-) First question.....what do you do with your pelvis? Is it rolled forward and "locked in" in order to produce "body unity" between the torso and the legs? Or is it "floating" and relaxed? Second question.....where does your power originate from? Sure, we are standing upright so all power comes from the ground. But what is the engine driving the transmission? Is it the knees? Or is it the kua (waist/hips/pelvis)? Third question.....what "dynamic" do you hit with? Is it like a "spinning bar", or it is like a "whip"? Fourth question....can you stand in front of the Mok Jong in YGKYM with your palms flat on the trunk of the dummy and really "rock" the dummy without lifting your hands or moving your feet? The "inch" or "short" power is not just a parlor trick used to impress people in demos. In fact, if the person on the receiving end is thrown back several feet it was probably more of a push than a punch, and not the "short" power at all! Keith The punch is just like a push, using the whole body moving through the target but with the added snap that penetrates. A analogy that I like to use to describe the punching power (and IMO the same power that is throughout the whole system) is like a bullet coming out of the barrel of a gun, the speed is instaneous, and is very fast and shocking. This is the way to punch, although we can also use the shifting hip/pelvis/body torqueing thing that other's use as well when needed. James |
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KPM
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Post by KPM on Feb 1, 2005 6:08:23 GMT -5
The punch is just like a push, using the whole body moving through the target but with the added snap that penetrates. A analogy that I like to use to describe the punching power (and IMO the same power that is throughout the whole system) is like a bullet coming out of the barrel of a gun, the speed is instaneous, and is very fast and shocking. This is the way to punch, although we can also use the shifting hip/pelvis/body torqueing thing that other's use as well when needed. James ---I prefer the analogy of the whip. I also like Hendrik's analogy of a bow and arrow. The tip of the whip is also moving very fast and is very shocking, but still connected to the body, and not a push at all. The arrow has to be "launched" by the bow which uses expansive and contractive forces. Why not use the "shifting hip/pelvis/body torqueing thing" with all strikes and not just "when needed"? This is part of the "snake body" biomechanic. For most people, if they aren't working specifically to develop this and giving it some attention and priority, it isn't going to develop much at all. Keith |
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garuda
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Post by garuda on Feb 1, 2005 7:08:47 GMT -5
my fantasy is that---
Acceleration and what is used for generation of the innertial momentum are key components need to be solved . everything has to be fit in one piece. where while shifting, while moving, while not moving. while others move into you. while you move into others, ....
the power can be evoked effortless, unconditional, and with ease. Otherwise, it is a pre-meditation power which might looks great in demonstration, but can never be used in life situation. Thus, pay attention to K1 or X1 or Yi.....ect doesnt work because that intend make the " natural totallity" fix to a certain reference at will. it no longer become a "nature flow" of current to where ever it needs to go.
and shifting hip/pelvis/body torqueing thing are just a part or suppliment of the power generation or contribute to power propagation. That is not the full story of how the innertial momentum and acceleration being generated. and those often are utilising muscle power to generate force to a large scale which never get away from using the shoulder twist power or the waist twist.... if it is short power then whoever have bigger muscle will always win whoever is young and etheletic always win....
some using the shoulder power combine with the push of real leg with snap of thier wrist join. Some can argue that is the inch power. some pop the hip forward .... Some using the shoulder as hammer and fist as nail.... Some can argue that is it or that is not.
one is everything. everything is one. one because it can be evoked in simple maner and with ease. Everything because it consist of lots of very specific details tailor for every situation and condition naturally. When one has a car one drives without stuck in thinking which wheel is spining. and ofcorse there alway is a different between a fourwheel drive engine and a two wheel drive. So, get the car first.
Ask a simple question disregards of what one does bow, bullets, hammer, twist , push....
Do you prepare before strike or you dont?
Do you tense strike or release to let go?
Do you tense up before strike or you just strike?
Do you stop breathing before strike or you just breath when you strike?
There lay important clue on what kind of enginee and what kind of acceleartion or innertial momentum generation......etc etc....
just some thought
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KPM
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Post by KPM on Feb 2, 2005 6:20:07 GMT -5
Hendrik wrote:
and shifting hip/pelvis/body torqueing thing are just a part or suppliment of the power generation or contribute to power propagation. That is not the full story of how the innertial momentum and acceleration being generated. and those often are utilising muscle power to generate force to a large scale which never get away from using the shoulder twist power or the waist twist.... if it is short power then whoever have bigger muscle will always win whoever is young and etheletic always win....
---Sure. But it has to start somewhere. Like I said before....you have to learn to walk before you learn to run. Now if you want to provide some direction and instruction for us "walkers".....please do! :-) :-) :-)
one is everything. everything is one. one because it can be evoked in simple maner and with ease. Everything because it consist of lots of very specific details tailor for every situation and condition naturally. When one has a car one drives without stuck in thinking which wheel is spining.
---Sure. But one often has to worry about whether they are in the proper gear for the terrain they want to navigate! :-)
Ask a simple question disregards of what one does bow, bullets, hammer, twist , push....
---All just analogies and not the "real" thing. Just ways to think about what is happening. Some are more useful than others.
Do you prepare before strike or you dont?
---No. Strike from where you are, with what is available, to whatever is open.
Do you tense strike or release to let go?
---Relax, tense enough to produce the strike as effectively as possible, then relax again!
Do you tense up before strike or you just strike?
---Just strike.
Do you stop breathing before strike or you just breath when you strike?
---Breath naturally thru-out.
There lay important clue on what kind of enginee and what kind of acceleartion or innertial momentum generation......etc etc....
---True. But I think another important clue is the core biomechanics employed. And that starts with things like how you are pivoting, how you are using the waist, how you are torqueing with the spine, etc. You have to have good fundamentals for any good advance application to come out. If the fundamentals aren't good, the advanced stuff won't be there, or will seem forced and not natural.
Keith
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garuda
Junior Member
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Post by garuda on Feb 2, 2005 12:25:18 GMT -5
---Sure. But it has to start somewhere. Like I said before....you have to learn to walk before you learn to run. Now if you want to provide some direction and instruction for us "walkers".....please do! ------------------------ 1, Do you prepare before strike or you dont? ---No. Strike from where you are, with what is available, to whatever is open. 2, Do you tense strike or release to let go? ---Relax, tense enough to produce the strike as effectively as possible, then relax again! 3. Do you tense up before strike or you just strike? ---Just strike. From above, since you said "tense enough to produce the strike as effectively as possible, then relax again!" So, either you always in tense state or you tense up to prepare before strike? that is a preparation --> tense enough. Thus, did you do "just strike?" May be the first step of learning how to walk is to learn to Aware of what is one doing vesus what one thinks one is doing? just some thoughts |
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KPM
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Post by KPM on Feb 2, 2005 19:20:14 GMT -5
From above, since you said "tense enough to produce the strike as effectively as possible, then relax again!" So, either you always in tense state or you tense up to prepare before strike? that is a preparation --> tense enough. Thus, did you do "just strike?" May be the first step of learning how to walk is to learn to Aware of what is one doing vesus what one thinks one is doing? just some thoughts ---The body doesn't move, the punch does not go out, without muscles tensing and powering the strike. What you are asking is a moot point. You tense enough to get the job done....nothing more, nothing less. You don't "hold" tension prior to the strike, but muscle tension is required to produce the strike. I'm aware of what I'm doing, and also aware of basic physiology and biomechanics. Now how about telling use "walkers" how we can "run" more efficiently? :-) Keith |
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garuda
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Post by garuda on Feb 2, 2005 20:27:52 GMT -5
--- You don't "hold" tension prior to the strike, but muscle tension is required to produce the strike. PS: I move this to the other discussion. |
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Post by chaotic2k on Mar 29, 2005 12:08:23 GMT -5
Just some quick words on my own Wing chun. Unite the body as one unit so when i punch my body punches. Strike upwards in order to lift the oppent from his roots. Always aim direct, at the same spot hitting with the 2 bottom knuckles. Keep your elbows linked into the stance (no Yip chun style bong sau) Try to finish the job with 1 punch rarther than 10 weak ones. Each punch has maximun power, hitting through the target. Using Chu Yin to fight the oppenet on a good angle causing him to be offline. When turning in the stance fight on the new line, dont turn back to fight. Keep the triangle. The hands are relaxed until impact. When i punch i punch, i dont hammer down. Each shot is penertraing. When i shift i keep my head on the same axis, maintaining my horse and unity. When i kick my head doesn't move back, i push of the back leg and use my leg like tan sau. When using a tan sau i bring it down to the lowest point of my elbow, when i low gaun sau i redirect the attack instead of cutting into it. I apply my fak sau without raising the elbow too high, keeping it at its lowest point. When i preform tan da, i make sure my arms are parrell. I never pak sau to the wrist but instead to the elbow. Pak sau is directed at the oppenets centre of balance, same with bong sau. Bong sau is an attack, instead of using the wing chun blocks we try to block punches with punches. Thats all for now   |
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