Different Wing Chun streams.

[Eric Ling]

Hi Chas,

I got a couple of Cds covering non-YM Wing Chun. Below are grabs from one of them.

Different from your YM style but essentially still WC.





How is Seattle ?
I hear crummy weather right ? Anything like in "Sleepless in Seattle" ?

[Seeker]

those grabs look like Sil Lum Tao?

Not much like "Sleepless in Seattle!" this last summer was the driest in a long long time -- only one rainstorm!

Its a good place -- lots of water, mountains and kung fu!

Any Tri-pole work on any of your Wing Chun VCD's?

I think i have a few of those -- i'll check those too.

[Eric Ling]

Hi Chas,

I got a bunch of videos on Wing Chun. I will try and go through them for the tri=pole form. Most of these are gifts from friends who travel and knowing that I am investigating White Crane and Wing Chun, they got them for me.

Have you heard of this guy - Micky Wong ? His Wing Chun is another variation. This guy moves pretty fast and in his Wing Chun, he does a thing call "Snake Hand".

I can't remember yours - do you stick both palms out in the salutation like a double spearhand jab ? The palms are touching in Wong's salute.

Talk to you again.

[pitbull]

i also read that there is even a vietnamese wingchun...

interesting trivia: did you know that the actor playing 'centipede' in '5 venoms' is a wingchun man?

[Seeker]

Eric said:

Have you heard of this guy - Micky Wong ? His Wing Chun is another variation. This guy moves pretty fast and in his Wing Chun, he does a thing call "Snake Hand".

I can't remember yours - do you stick both palms out in the salutation like a double spearhand jab ? The palms are touching in Wong's salute.

Our (form) salutation has both open palms facing the ground as they come up, snapping into fists, then rotating (still in fists) to palm up fists, then chambering.

I've never heard of Mickey Wong -- whats his branch of Wing Chun? I have heard some people refer to sections of our Bil Jee as "snake hand," but I don't really see it myself in the form, rather i see it in the application of Bil Jee.

thanks

Chas

[KPM]

Hi Guys!

A few points. Micky Wong is the inheritor of his father's system....Mei Gai Wong WCK. His father's nickname was "Mei Gai" or "Rice Machine" Wong. Their system is very close to Yuen Kay Shan WCK, with some added elements. Their WCK is typically "softer" and more fluid than a lot that you see. Pretty good stuff, though a little too "elaborated" for my taste. Its a shame that various people thru the generations have felt the need to "add to" and "elaborate on" their WCK. It makes getting a good taste of the original somewhat difficult.

The "snake hand" is part of the Sam Bai Fut section of the SLT form in both the Mei Gai Wong and Yuen Kay Shan systems. It is pretty much the same as the motion from the Biu Gee form in the Yip Man systems.

The tri-pole dummy is a footwork and kicking dummy found in some systems. It is an abbreviated version of the "plum blossum piles." It is covered in Leung Ting's book. Nothing special about its use. Just stand between them and kick the posts at different angles, or practice your footwork by stepping around and between them in different patterns.

Don't know how the chap is in the first set of pics, or what his version of WCK is, but he looks pretty high in his stance to me. What is his WCK?

Thanks!
Keith

[Nataraya]

Hello Keith,

Welcome to this (little) forum, I am happy to have you on board. Looking forward to your constructive replies. I think it is worth to ntroduce yourself in the Welcome section, others like to read your current stay and practice in Guangzhou.

Again, welcome my friend,

Evert.

[Nataraya]

Dear Keith,

I found some information on Wingchun.com. Extracted some statements.

Statement 1:

Gulao Wing Chun is 7 parts soft, 3 parts hard. Foshan Wing Chun is 3 parts soft, 7 parts hard.
Keith, were you (already) able to view some clips of Crane Boxing? For instance from Russ Smith his homepage or Eng Cho Bai He (Martin Watts). I am very interested how soft (or hard) the Gu Lao system is. Is it softer then the Yip Man branch?

Statement 2: The Pin Sun system consisted of thirty-six "core" San Sik, divided into twelve sections of fighting methods (with additional extensions, Jong Sao (Dummy Hands), Som Dim Boon Gwun (Three-and-a-half Point Pole), and Yee Jee Yum Yeung Dit Ming Dao (Parallel Yin Yang Life-Taking Knives)). Each of the twelve sets contained either three actions or had three cycles, which are similar to the actions of Dr. Leung Jan's original art. These movements and combinations were very simple and direct, were both straight and circular, were primarily…….”.

Does this mean that during workout, you mainly focus on these drills? With a partner or solo?

Sounds great and like to hear more information. We do our best to keep discussion clean of politics, because we are all interested in martial ‘relationships’, I mean on a technical and historical base.

Warm regards,

Evert.

Note: I happened to know a Wing Chun player from Guangzhou, I se you are living in DC. My excuse for the mistake...

[KPM]

Hi Evert!

Gulao Wing Chun is 7 parts soft, 3 parts hard. Foshan Wing Chun is 3 parts soft, 7 parts hard.
Keith, were you (already) able to view some clips of Crane Boxing? For instance from Russ Smith his homepage or Eng Cho Bai He (Martin Watts).

---Yes. I have seen Martin Watts' webpages. But I have not seen the one from Russ Smith. What is the URL for that one?

I am very interested how soft (or hard) the Gu Lao system is. Is it softer then the Yip Man branch?

---Yes it is. Pin Sun WCK, Yuen Kay Shan WCK, Cho Ga WCK.....all tend to be softer than most Yip Man versions. Relaxed motion is emphasized with power coming from the waist and "snapped out" similar to Tai Chi rather than being "muscled."

Statement 2: The Pin Sun system consisted of thirty-six "core" San Sik, divided into twelve sections of fighting methods (with additional extensions, Jong Sao (Dummy Hands), Som Dim Boon Gwun (Three-and-a-half Point Pole), and Yee Jee Yum Yeung Dit Ming Dao (Parallel Yin Yang Life-Taking Knives)). Each of the twelve sets contained either three actions or had three cycles, which are similar to the actions of Dr. Leung Jan's original art. These movements and combinations were very simple and direct, were both straight and circular, were primarily…….”.

Does this mean that during workout, you mainly focus on these drills? With a partner or solo?

---As noted above, rather than being based on the 3 form system (Siu Lim Tau, Chum Kiu, Bui Gee), Leung Jan modified his curriculum and taught it with a San Sik format. Same basic material, just a different teaching method. But the above info should read "12 core San Sik with additional extensions adding up to 36 total San Sik." Each San Sik is just a short 3-4 move form. Typically each San Sik is practiced solo, practiced on the wooden dummy, has a two-man drill to teach application, and is done as part of Chi Sau. They are divided up into progressive levels, just as you would teach the standard 3 forms in stages.


Note: I happened to know a Wing Chun player from Guangzhou, I se you are living in DC. My excuse for the mistake...

---No problem. That would probably be Keith King. I know of him from a different forum. :-)

Keith P. Myers

[Eric Ling]

Folks,

Got a pic of "Pao Fa Lin" Wing Chun doing their "bridge hands" seated.

[KPM]

Thanks for the pic Eric. That's a simple Lop Sau back and forth. Nothing special. Can be done standing or seated. Any of the WCK two-man drills can be done seated.

Keith

[sihing]

Does anyone have any comments on the way they are doing their lop sao drill the way they are?

My observation is the are losing their elbow positioning, allowing the centerline to be open, which means to me they are muscling it.

The bald guy, Mickey is still down the centerline and should step more off to the blindside to obtain a better tactical position, making it harder for his opponent to either counter his trap/strike combo or to launch another attack with the opposite hand (referring to picture on the left).

Just some observations...anyone else care to comment?

James

[KPM]

Hi James!

Does anyone have any comments on the way they are doing their lop sao drill the way they are?

---This is a sitting version of what some do as a basic standing Lop Sau drill. Why sitting? Probably just for a different "feel". Why THAT particular drill was photographed for a magazine article is a mystery. :-)

My observation is the are losing their elbow positioning, allowing the centerline to be open, which means to me they are muscling it.

---Notice that there is no Bong Sau being used. This drill (standing version) is sometimes taught prior to and separate from the Lop Da drill that uses the Bong-Lop motion back and forth. So there is no elbow positioning to lose. The intent is to learn to "link" and "unlink" using the pivot and waist, and to develop a solid Lop motion that is intended to break the opponent's center. That's more difficult to do sitting down and I think is what gives the impression of "muscling it."

The bald guy, Mickey is still down the centerline and should step more off to the blindside to obtain a better tactical position, making it harder for his opponent to either counter his trap/strike combo or to launch another attack with the opposite hand (referring to picture on the left).

---Those pics were captured from a video of Wong in the "heat" of an exchange. It would be hard to second guess what was going on from just those captured pics.

Keith

[Eric Ling]

KPM said:

---Those pics were captured from a video of Wong in the "heat" of an exchange. It would be hard to second guess what was going on from just those captured pics.

Keith

Excellent reply Keith!!

Starting to feel better about Wing Chun players again.

Thank you.

[sihing]

KPM said:

My observation is the are losing their elbow positioning, allowing the centerline to be open, which means to me they are muscling it.

---Notice that there is no Bong Sau being used. This drill (standing version) is sometimes taught prior to and separate from the Lop Da drill that uses the Bong-Lop motion back and forth. So there is no elbow positioning to lose. The intent is to learn to "link" and "unlink" using the pivot and waist, and to develop a solid Lop motion that is intended to break the opponent's center. That's more difficult to do sitting down and I think is what gives the impression of "muscling it."

Keith

Maybe in your WC there is elbow position off line of the centerline, but in mine there is never a elbow positon while performing Lop sao off centerline so IMO his elbow psotioning is lost, regardless if bon sao is used before hand. We use Lop sao in all kinds of applications without Bon sao preluding it. The idea behind the way we do Lop Sao is to use the body to turn as a unit, instead of just arm strength or movement, to which means someone is pulling you into their own bodies which can be used against you. When using Lop sao you pull them sideways, trying to 1)pull them off balance while 2) opening the body up for attack, not just off balance or into a attack.

James
www.wingchun-canada.com