sihing
New Member
Wing Chun Instructor-training since 1988
Posts: 16
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Post by sihing on Jan 20, 2005 0:50:22 GMT -5
hi James, Just wondering, how much of Yong Chun White Crane have you seen? Have you been to www.fujianbaihe.com ? Thanks. None, not that I'm aware of anyways, lol. James
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 20, 2005 2:29:08 GMT -5
Hi James, Thank you for your clarifications. This forum is a friendly little tea house for all weary Martial Art travelers to meet and talk shop. I count on each and every member to help create the right ambience. And for the record, I have the HIGEST respect for the Wing Chun system of Chinese Kung Fu. Because of this, I did in my explorations, looked very deeply into this system. What I witnessed reinforce my feeling about Wing Chun. To be able to learn from others is a Virtue in my book. For some it is a case of “Know yourself, know your enemies. A hundred battles a hundred victories”. Some of the greatest Masters I’ve met are always putting themselves and their styles down. Now I know why. Looking forward to your contributions to this forum. Xia Xia.
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Post by Seeker on Jan 20, 2005 12:16:29 GMT -5
I have been reading recent posts to this thread with interest.
I echo Ling's comments wholeheartedly.
My "first love" martial art is and always will be Wing Chun. It is the central filter through which i view and interprete all other systems i come in contact with. It is the system in which I continue to train every day of the week, and I am honored to be a lineage holder for my system. I am also honored with the duty of carrying on another, more "secret" system. I have touched hands with Wing Chuners, "fighter's fighters" and not, who have incredible skill and who are true, good martial arts humans.
At the same time, I have come across practitioners from other styles ("fighter's fighters" and not) who posses breathtakingly effective skills. Of course, as we all have, i have also witnessed posers and charletans whose egos have them believe they and their systems are the Chosen Ones of martial arts.
The bottom line is that if I had to have someone on my side in a fight against a bada$$, i don't give a shiznit whether they're Wing Chun, Shaolin, White Crane or BJJ. My first choice is for someone who can bring up The Fire (perhaps this is the "fighter's fighter?"). After that, my next choice is a smart fighter -- one who can be crafty and devious. After that, my choice might be my faithful rottweiler and/or a Glock 45mm.
No system is "better" than any other. Is Picasso "better" than Van Gogh? Is Mozart "better" than Beethoven?
Chas
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 20, 2005 20:18:30 GMT -5
Hi Chas, Thank you for that “fiery” post. What you said is actually part of a very old CKF idiom; “First courage (guts, fire), second strength and third kung fu”. Another frequent saying, almost along the same line is perhaps “Random fists killing a Kung Fu master”. These 2 are ancient insights passed through many generations of Chinese Kung Fu. They both stressed the overriding significance of “spirit” or “fire”. Without which you don’t make a good fighter and I don’t care how good you are technically. And to your question; who is better? Beethoven or Mozart……..? I say “Neil Young” but wait he is Canadian…………….argh nevermind.
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sihing
New Member
Wing Chun Instructor-training since 1988
Posts: 16
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Post by sihing on Jan 21, 2005 0:40:30 GMT -5
We had a discussion on another forum about the qualities needed to be a good "fighter". Before anything, I personally do not consider myself a good "fighter" as my definition of a fighter is someone who 1)likes to fight and hurt others 2) has the killer instinct 3) like to train hard and push themselves 4)picks up on those things that interest them (fighting) fast, therefore a quick learner of fighting technique. Bruce Lee comes to mind when I think of a fighter as he embodied all of the above. I consider myself to be a person skilled in Wing Chun and to have quality self defense abilities, which increase depending on the intensity level of the situation.
My list of the top qualities of a fighter are: 1)Will or Heart
2)Skills-meaning total martial arts skill not just technical skill or perfection in one's own physical movment
3)Conditioning
All of the above are important and rely on one another to complete the package, but if you have no heart or will to come out on top then you will give up to early when obstacles get in the way.
James
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Post by pitbull on Jan 21, 2005 3:46:02 GMT -5
its the person that makes the style...not the other way around :-) a really gifted fighter can make something silly work...a rather less gifted fighter cant make us of the most brilliant style... :-)
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Post by Suhana LIM on Jan 21, 2005 20:35:28 GMT -5
Da jia ni men hao
I am just a lover not a fighter. Make peace not war.
IMHO, to destroy is always easier than to preserve. So why need more destruction.
To conquer other people is EASY and show that you are powerful. But to conquer your own ego/self, this is the most difficult one and if you can do this, shows how great you are.
Cheers.
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Post by Om on Jan 21, 2005 21:19:43 GMT -5
My list of the top fighters are: Zhou Po-Tong Huang yao-Shr Au Yang Fung. Those are the best of the best. who is better? Beethoven or Mozart?..? **listen to the moon light sonata. see how great it ended with full of love. www.mfiles.co.uk/Scores/moonlight-movement1.htmTerima Kasi
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sihing
New Member
Wing Chun Instructor-training since 1988
Posts: 16
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Post by sihing on Jan 21, 2005 22:18:13 GMT -5
its the person that makes the style...not the other way around :-) a really gifted fighter can make something silly work...a rather less gifted fighter cant make us of the most brilliant style... :-) Yes and No when it comes to fighting/combat. The fact of the matter is there are better methods of doing things for everything that we do in life. Personal attributes and abilites are a great asset, but like Bruce said you have to balance it with something that is effective, when talking about combat. A "Natural" fighter will not have a advantage over a skilled MA, and again the definition of skilled is someone that 1)has technical skill 2)knowledge of the complete system 3) the Art is emboddied in the body of the practitioner therefore it is second nature to him 4)he can move and not be a couch potato. Now add in a Art that is very effective and efficient with these principals found throughout the whole system from start to end, and you have just multiplied your effectiveness as a figher. Skilled Wing Chun fighers are not impossible to beat, just like any good figher, but they will give problems to anyone that challenges them. James
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 22, 2005 11:14:11 GMT -5
Hi James, Just a thought:- Since nobody here is claiming to be the “best” in term of methodologies, you might be fishing in the wrong pond. Now (this should be exciting for you), I found someone who claims to be the “BEST”. Go see for yourself:- www.tigerkungfu.comand listen to the message from the Jung Shee. And this gentleman can also be found in Southern Fist forum (Hakka Board) propounding his unbeatable system. Maybe that’s where you should be spending time, yes?
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sihing
New Member
Wing Chun Instructor-training since 1988
Posts: 16
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Post by sihing on Jan 22, 2005 11:54:08 GMT -5
I'll check the site out some other time, just getting ready to leave for a week.
As I said earlier I don't believe in the word "Best" because there are just to many variables. But there are in the MA more effective systems than others, if you don't believe this then I don't know what to say. The Gracie's proved this back in the early 90's with their system, and the early students of Yip Man did the same in Hong Kong back in the 50's with Wing Chun.
I respect all others, and am not so confident in my Wing Chun to think that I am unbeatable, lol, because I'm far from that, nor would I have a superiority complex when meeting another MA in combat, because thinking is the first mistake in fighting.
James
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KPM
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by KPM on Jan 22, 2005 13:11:37 GMT -5
---Greetings Gentlemen!
I think you are on the right path.
---I think so as well. I am becoming more and more convinced of the White Crane --- Wing Chun connection. The idea that Wing Chun is "White Crane gone Cantonese" makes sense to me based on what I've seen and read so far. I am a practitioner of Ku Loo Pin Sun WCK, which probably has more similarities to White Crane than the Hong Kong Yip Man lineages that most people are familiar with. Firehawk turned me on to this forum. What attracts me to stay his Mr. Eric Ling's obvious depth of knowledge displayed on multiple postings, and the fact that there is a White Crane discussion board here where I hope to learn more about this system and explore its relationship to WCK.
But I think it is still doable to collate in terms of techniques and principles. This I hope is where we are headed – should be a stimulating experience.
---This is the type of discussion I hope to see as well.
Keith
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Post by pitbull on Jan 22, 2005 17:56:07 GMT -5
Yes and No when it comes to fighting/combat. The fact of the matter is there are better methods of doing things for everything that we do in life. Personal attributes and abilites are a great asset, but like Bruce said you have to balance it with something that is effective, when talking about combat. A "Natural" fighter will not have a advantage over a skilled MA, and again the definition of skilled is someone that 1)has technical skill 2)knowledge of the complete system 3) the Art is emboddied in the body of the practitioner therefore it is second nature to him 4)he can move and not be a couch potato. Now add in a Art that is very effective and efficient with these principals found throughout the whole system from start to end, and you have just multiplied your effectiveness as a figher. Skilled Wing Chun fighers are not impossible to beat, just like any good figher, but they will give problems to anyone that challenges them. James but what may work for others may not work for somebody else :-) its just that simple :-) just like in pingpong...some people find the orthodox hold to be more natural and logical way to hold the racket but some people swear by the more awkward and less logical way of holding the racket (the penhold), :-) its all a matter of personal preference :-) i just found my MA to work quite well for my mindset :-) and that is the best for me. i also did some other systems here and there but still i found that the style doesnt compliment the way i fight :-) WC is good though and share some common points w our beloved art in that it is streamlined and concentrates on a few devastating techniques but to say something is the best isnt actually proper. what is more proper wpuld be 'its best for me' i dont know if you are saying that bec you are teachng that system, and might have seen things from 'inside a well' but i think it would be wiser to keep it to one's self :-) and yes WC does have metaphores used in naming conventions. just like the horse. i think its called toed in PIGEON toes and stuff :-) for me i dont actually care if a fist is called 'custard cake palm' so long as i know what it is and i can a use for it :-) just my thoughts :-) peace
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Post by Eric Ling on Jan 22, 2005 22:32:39 GMT -5
Hey Pit and everybody:- Please let me have the last say concerning this topic and after which let’s give it a rest. Frankly, I don’t like the flow of this thread and it does nothing positive as far as sharing is concerned. “Nobody is the best”!! To say you’re the best would mean:- • You had defeated everybody! With thousand of fighting systems and millions of exponents, I really don’t think that is plausible. • No particular system is the “best”. If this is so, no other systems would have made it so far. Organized martial arts are at least 2000 years old and throughout that time, myriads of systems were developed/tested in battlefields and refined. So if hypothetically there is a proven superior singular system, wouldn’t that system, by now, be the dominating system? All of us are “chauvinistic” when it comes to talking about the system we chosen to do. That is being human. But to advocate that one’s system is superior comparatively, to me, is being very blinkered. But again, that is being human also. On a good day, I sometimes think I can leap tall buildings in a single bounce too. You just don’t find me mouthing that in public forums. This forum got no place for Superman. This thread is going nowhere and should be terminated. We want to share. If you have something good, put it on the table. And you will find the table loaded with goodies from everyone. A long eastern/western food buffet. And in the words of a very good friend; who wants to eat noodles everyday? Yam Seng!
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Post by Suhana LIM on Jan 22, 2005 23:14:07 GMT -5
Da jia ni men hao IMHO, I don't think why we should put this conversation to the end. As long as it is still in the corridor of the topic. Freedom of opinion, speech please. Cheers.
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