|
|
Post by Gojumaster on Sept 22, 2004 22:05:05 GMT -5
I am headed back to Okinawa in a few days to train with my teacher, Gakiya Yoshiaki who was Matayoshi Shimpo's top student.
Coincidentally, Matayoshi Shimpo and his father Matayoshi Shinko trained with "Gokenki", the Ming He boxer that lived in Okinawa for some time. Matayoshi's / Gokenki's kata seem to be some of what started the whole Okinawa Hakutsuru craze.
|
|
|
|
Post by brad pitbull on Sept 23, 2004 0:26:25 GMT -5
sorry to stray from the discussion but how does kobudo differ from the average chinese weapons routines?
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric Ling on Sept 23, 2004 0:57:18 GMT -5
Hi Russ,
I have been reading about Gokenki and I have even seen some old photos of him.
Do you know his Chinese name?
I have the “complete” White Crane family tree going all the way back to Chi Niang.
Locating his lineage in the tree might shed some light on this whole Hakutsuru matter.
Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pakhok on Sept 23, 2004 5:20:31 GMT -5
Gokenki's Chinese name was I believe "Wu Xianhui". He was born in 1887 in Fuzhou, the youngest of four brothers and three sisters. His uncle's name was Wu Songmu was said to have been proficent in Quanfa and the long sword.
One theory states that Gokenki learnt Ming He Quan as a result of his uncle befriending Xie Zongxian. Wu Songmu is said to have asked Xie Zongxian to teach Gokanki and two of his brothers Xiancai and Xianchang.
Another theory states that Gokenki learnt his Crane Boxing from Zhou Zhihe (1876-1926), the same Zhoe Zhihe who had taught okinawan Uechi Kanbun.
In 1912 Gokenki moved to Okinawa and started a Tea company called the Senshun Kai in Naha's Higashi-machi area... The shop was run by another Fuzhou man named Gao Jiangjie.
Gokenki married an Okinawan lady called Yoshikawa Makato (1898-1845) and they had a daughter named Yoshikawa Toyo (1920-1945).
Initially it is said that Gokenki only taught a Okinawan who worked for him by the name of Aniya Seisho but was later to open up his teachings to other Okinawans. It is said that unlike the mainland teachers, Gokenki did not charge any fees to his students.
One of the few surviving students of Gokenki is Itoman Shojo (born 1924). It is said that Gokenki taught the following forms:
* Babulien - Linking Steps (Happoren in Japanese)
* Ershibada - Twenty Eight Strikes (Nijuhachi-uchi in Japanese
*Zhongkuang - Middle Save (Chukyo in Japanese).
In addition Gokenki taught Quanfa in the garden of Takamine Yasuyuki in the township of Kume around 1937.
He died of stomach cancer in Higashimachi in May 1940 at the age of 53.
I hope this help your research in some small way.
Regards,
|
|
|
|
Post by Gojumaster on Sept 23, 2004 7:32:21 GMT -5
Eric,
In the next few days I will track down Gokenki's name in Chinese for you.
I have a number of books by Japanese researchers that discuss him, it will just take some looking, since my Japanese and Chinese reading abilities are not great.
It would be interesting to see if he could be found in your records. Maybe he won't, but it would be neat to try.
Best Regards,
Russ
|
|
|
|
Post by brad pitbull on Sept 23, 2004 8:01:32 GMT -5
its also interesting that one of NGO CHOR KUN founder Chua Giokbing's prodige left for japan..gojuryu looks/resembles more like NCK than white crane...so i am thinking that NCK may have contributed to goju somehow...the sai also was a NCK trademark and so is the tonfa
|
|
|
|
Post by Suhana LIM on Sept 24, 2004 22:18:57 GMT -5
Pitbull ni hao
Of course there are major influenced from NCK to karate especially Okinawan. But as always, there will plenty of people who will denied this fact with millions of their "arguments." Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by CStephens on Sept 24, 2004 23:00:51 GMT -5
I've heard of the NCK link to the Okinawan arts, but I've yet to pin down specific students/teachers.
The big thing I've heard is the connection between Hiagonna's Sanchin and the Sanchin of NCK.
|
|
|
|
Post by Suhana LIM on Sept 25, 2004 6:17:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by brad pitbull on Sept 25, 2004 11:08:41 GMT -5
also let us not forget that the okinawan people are warmer to the fujian people rather than their japanese occupiers. like stated,there is should be a name to it but our friend here will still have to find out(thanks).
our late GM Lokinghui went to okinawa/japan by invitiation some years back...he did some demo there and received good feedback...just would like to ad...
also...we also get okinawans going to the annual NCK meeting in quanzhou(along w most south shaolin arts)...i think some okinawan arts are NCK cousins actually...we also do karate chops...
|
|
|
|
Post by brad pitbull on Sept 25, 2004 11:44:10 GMT -5
i also had a friend who worked in japan...he told me that some older okinawans speak fujien dialect...i think these were once soujourners
|
|
|
|
Post by Suhana LIM on Sept 28, 2004 4:52:24 GMT -5
Da jia ni men hao
In the past, Middle Kingdom (China) is the superpower. If we make a comparison to the present time, like USA.
It's influence can be seen to the smaller nations all over the regions. Cheers.
|
|
|
|
Post by MightBHooked on Oct 1, 2004 10:03:59 GMT -5
Gokenki's Chinese name was I believe "Wu Xianhui". He was born in 1887 in Fuzhou, the youngest of four brothers and three sisters. His uncle's name was Wu Songmu was said to have been proficent in Quanfa and the long sword. One theory states that Gokenki learnt Ming He Quan as a result of his uncle befriending Xie Zongxian. Wu Songmu is said to have asked Xie Zongxian to teach Gokanki and two of his brothers Xiancai and Xianchang. Another theory states that Gokenki learnt his Crane Boxing from Zhou Zhihe (1876-1926), the same Zhoe Zhihe who had taught okinawan Uechi Kanbun. In 1912 Gokenki moved to Okinawa and started a Tea company called the Senshun Kai in Naha's Higashi-machi area... The shop was run by another Fuzhou man named Gao Jiangjie. Gokenki married an Okinawan lady called Yoshikawa Makato (1898-1845) and they had a daughter named Yoshikawa Toyo (1920-1945). Initially it is said that Gokenki only taught a Okinawan who worked for him by the name of Aniya Seisho but was later to open up his teachings to other Okinawans. It is said that unlike the mainland teachers, Gokenki did not charge any fees to his students. One of the few surviving students of Gokenki is Itoman Shojo (born 1924). It is said that Gokenki taught the following forms: * Babulien - Linking Steps (Happoren in Japanese) * Ershibada - Twenty Eight Strikes (Nijuhachi-uchi in Japanese *Zhongkuang - Middle Save (Chukyo in Japanese). In addition Gokenki taught Quanfa in the garden of Takamine Yasuyuki in the township of Kume around 1937. He died of stomach cancer in Higashimachi in May 1940 at the age of 53. I hope this help your research in some small way. Regards, Anyone interested in the whole article and the source of the above post, please see the article in the Dragon Times, Volume 20, pgs. 13-15 (now called Classical Fighting Arts Magazine) Wu Xianhui and Tang Daiji -Pioneers of Okinawan Karate By Mario McKenna It's only fair to list the source of that info and give credit, where credit is due. See Classical Fighting Arts MagazineThank you. |
|
|
|
Post by RonGoninan on Oct 1, 2004 21:12:16 GMT -5
MightBhooked,
Yes you are riight. My mistake. The wonderful article also dealt with Tiger Boxer Tang Daiji.
Dragon Times, Volume 20, Wu Xianhui and Tang Daiji -Pioneers of Okinawan Karate By Mario McKenna
|
|
|
|
Post by GojuKing on Oct 2, 2004 21:24:33 GMT -5
MightBhooked, Yes you are riight. My mistake. The wonderful article also dealt with Tiger Boxer Tang Daiji. Dragon Times, Volume 20, Wu Xianhui and Tang Daiji -Pioneers of Okinawan Karate By Mario McKenna So I see, this thief is up to his usual Sh*t here. Yo, Mr. Administrator, kick his sorry a#* out. Won't be the first - he is bad news in many forums. The King |
|
