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Post by Nataraya on Oct 24, 2004 2:56:46 GMT -5
Thank you Suhana for the links. The idea of this forum is to share information, its up to the reader if he is getting triggered for further research. But integrating links is just pefect and safe much time. I did like the read of the second link, bounded and good text. The relation between the Triads and martial arts should be clear. especially with Hung Ga Kuen, there is a strong relation. In our oral tradition there are stories between Ng Hei Kwoen (the student of Tit Kiu Sam) and Su Hat Yee or beggar Su. From both artist I knew a little bit, but not that much. Beggar Su is more from Tit Kiu Sam his generation, but as a martial artist and healer, very important. Ng Hei kwoen was captured and Beggar Su heleped him out. There was still a strong brotherhood then. Hung Men was an organisation in which NOT only Hung Ga Kuen were trained. Absolutely not, they covered a whole range of systems and styles which were effective and functional in their actions. From Hakka, to Cantonese Boxing, to............ One big source of martial skills not linked to one system only. This might be a reason why several Southern systems are just one big box of several systems. I think that our Nam Siu lam Hung Ga Kuen is such a box too. Okay, I think that this thread colored the picture more then enough. Together with the links it give the ínterested' reader information enough to come [eventual] back with questions. Thank you all,.......... Evert. Extra: www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/photo/2004/06/07/2003137723www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/li.htmwww.iun.edu/~hisdcl/g385_2001/seagrave1.htmwww.asiawind.com/pub/forum/fhakka/mhonarc/msg00532.htmlreference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/T/TriadSoc.htmlwww.kungfucinema.com/articles/2003-05-28-02.htmwww.thecorner.org/hists/china/chin-revo.htm
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Post by pitbull on Oct 24, 2004 3:04:09 GMT -5
i found this picture of a hung man he is doing one of the trade mark poses of his style hehehe
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 25, 2004 4:50:43 GMT -5
Thank you Suhana for the links. The idea of this forum is to share information, its up to the reader if he is getting triggered for further research. But integrating links is just pefect and safe much time. I did like the read of the second link, bounded and good text. The relation between the Triads and martial arts should be clear. especially with Hung Ga Kuen, there is a strong relation. In our oral tradition there are stories between Ng Hei Kwoen (the student of Tit Kiu Sam) and Su Hat Yee or beggar Su. From both artist I knew a little bit, but not that much. Beggar Su is more from Tit Kiu Sam his generation, but as a martial artist and healer, very important. Ng Hei kwoen was captured and Beggar Su heleped him out. There was still a strong brotherhood then. Hung Men was an organisation in which NOT only Hung Ga Kuen were trained. Absolutely not, they covered a whole range of systems and styles which were effective and functional in their actions. From Hakka, to Cantonese Boxing, to............ One big source of martial skills not linked to one system only. This might be a reason why several Southern systems are just one big box of several systems. I think that our Nam Siu lam Hung Ga Kuen is such a box too. Okay, I think that this thread colored the picture more then enough. Together with the links it give the ínterested' reader information enough to come [eventual] back with questions. Thank you all,.......... Evert. Extra: www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/photo/2004/06/07/2003137723www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/li.htmwww.iun.edu/~hisdcl/g385_2001/seagrave1.htmwww.asiawind.com/pub/forum/fhakka/mhonarc/msg00532.htmlreference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/T/TriadSoc.htmlwww.kungfucinema.com/articles/2003-05-28-02.htmwww.thecorner.org/hists/china/chin-revo.htmDa jia ni men hao Unfortunately in recent time, if we talk about secret society or triad, people will associate them with crimes. While in the beginning, they were noble. Cheers.
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 25, 2004 5:03:32 GMT -5
i found this picture of a hung man he is doing one of the trade mark poses of his style hehehe Pitbull ni hao He is William Hung from the American Idol? Cheers.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 28, 2004 5:44:05 GMT -5
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Post by pitbull on Oct 28, 2004 18:41:38 GMT -5
triads and secret societies will always be a part of chinese society...we have a handful of them here in our chinatown...and i think this goes to all chinatowns elsewhere...also...these societies have been present since the dawn of chinese civilization...with intentions of overthrowing govenments rather than doing organized crime
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 29, 2004 9:09:56 GMT -5
Most styles have a relationship with the Secret Society, I think it is important to know and understand that path. The influence of these societies did have a HUGE impact on the spreading and development of the art. This was my main drive to start this thread. I am sorry but nowadays Triad activity is not that interesting anymore, unless you are misleaded.
I know that this forum have guests from both Hung Kuen and White Crane branches. This thread is also meant for them. Understanding the past is understanding the future. But my excuse that you thought that my focus was on nowadays activities.
A well known martial artist was wandering in Southern Taiwan, searching for some authentic Boxing. In a way he was manipulated in a certain direction, so he visit that school group [Tung Chin Tsan]. He wasn’t impressed, styles like Lion and Ball, Conquer Tiger, Golden Dragon and Plum Blossom were shown. Later he noticed that he heard the name Black Dragon a lot. Then he realized what was behind that ‘manipulation’, and start traveling again.
I think a practitioner should a glimpse of ‘roots’. I have seen too many practitioners practicing a style with a fraud teacher. Truly a shame!
Warm regards,
Evert.
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 29, 2004 19:04:28 GMT -5
I think a practitioner should a glimpse of ‘roots’. I have seen too many practitioners practicing a style with a fraud teacher. Truly a shame! Warm regards, Evert. Evert ni hao Indeed, it's a sad and shamefull to see so many FAKE teachers fluorishing everywhere For the students, they maybe being naive and don't aware of this. But for the "teachers", sure they have thicker skin. They might think that their practice is ok. Cheers.
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Post by Nataraya on Feb 10, 2005 11:30:20 GMT -5
BOXING, BREATHING AND MAGIC.
by James Hanna.
************
Superbly conditioned fighters equipped with a sincere belief in their own immortality, the Red Spears may have been the last of China's truly phenomenal warriors.
***********
In 1912, China was in a state of turmoil. The Ching Dynasty had dissolved, and the newly formed Chinese Republic never became firmly established. The provincial warlords held much of the actual political power and oftentimes fought against each other. In this confusion bandits and outlaws prospered, in fact, some became so strong that they rivaled the warlords. The rural villagers and farmers were at their mercy, since all of the available soldiers were fighting for one faction or another. In order to survive in such a world these peasants banded together into a group that became known as the Red Spears. Guns were difficult for the secret society to obtain, so they used farm tools and traditional weapons instead. Bamboo canes, clubs, knives, swords, lances, shovels, forks, and especially the long, red-tasseled spear were among their favorites. Such weapons, in conjunction with the sacred disciplines of boxing, breathing and magic. took much time to master. In other secret societies that existed at that time a man could join up, get a weapon, and immediately confront the enemy. This was not so with the Red Spears. Neophytes who were received into the sect were required to undergo highly concentrated training before being permitted to fight. Each evening the local boxing master-who was also usually a priest-received both neophytes and senior members at the village kwoon where practice took place. They stayed with him, all night, until released at dawn. For 128 days the neophytes strengthened themselves through grueling, physical exercises. Their bodies were repeatedly subjected to full-contact kicks and punches in order to toughen the muscles. This demanded training, coupled with weapons and empty-hand practice, developed them into superb athletes. However, as physically skillful as they became, it was still not enough. To face the better-equipped bandits and warlords, the Red Spears were guided through intense spiritual training. Taoists priests are said to have directed them to kneel naked upon the ground and pray to various deities. the ensuing religious experiences were enhanced by charmed potions, and all physical pleasures such as sex, alcohol, tobacco, meat and narcotics were denied so as to keep the body uncorrupted. Purification also involved maintaining an extremely disciplined personal life that, at the most extreme level, forbade the consumption of any solid foods. Taoist priests taught that, ideally, the body was to be nourished only with liquids and the chi ("life force") that is in the air. This life force was assimilated through a secret training method called shen hu hsi, ("deep breathing"). Through shen hu hsi the chi taken from the universe was directed throughout the body along a system of meridians that is normally unperceived by the common man. The mastery of shen hu hsi was considered important for developing many physical abilities. By "sinking" his chi, a boxer could root himself to the ground in a seemingly immovable stance. On the other hand, by lightening his chi he was thought to be able to jump over trees or walk on sand without disturbing the grains. If the boxer was truly adept, such things as riding the wind were supposed to be possible. However, invulnerability was by far the most important of all magical powers. To obtain this gift the boxer prayed to several gods and begged them to make his body like iron. He also received a magic talisman to wear into battle. If he was pure, then his prayer was received and his magic would be strong. Only after completing this basic training could the neophyte try out what he had learned in actual combat. He was also then permitted to receive more advanced instruction. Whether or not the boxer's "magic" was real, each fighter's belief in it was strong enough to permit fearless behavior on the battlefield. The enemies of the Red Spears must have become surprised as they attacked a seemingly helpless village. Instead of facing defenseless farmers, they were confronted by an utterly fanatical group of warriors, all of them stripped to the waist, wearing red trousers, and ready to fight to the death. Although the Red Spears were formed almost spontaneously, each village was later organized by Taoist priests into a greater movement. To illustrate how successful the sect became, it is estimated that 530,000 men became members. The secret society, in effect, became a formidable army that was structured along military lines. The Red Spears of Honan province, for example, were divided into nine divisions with a chief in command of every 2,000 men. The sect had originated and continued for several years as a noble and inspired group. But in the end, they became corrupt like many other secret societies before them. Criminal elements slowly infiltrated their huge membership, and what the Red Spears once fought, they then became part of. At any rate, their time was running out. Mao Tse Tung was consolidating his communist government, and the reason for the sect's existence was no longer present. The Red Spears are noteworthy for several reasons, the most important being that they were one of the last secret societies of changing China. As the communist government became established, its leaders frowned upon the ancient ways of boxing. breathing and magic. They knew that these disciplines could not compete against the modern methods of combat, and they knew that armies of fanatical fighters were not ideal for social order. It was time for China to step out of the past and into the 20th century. The old ways had served their purpose, it was now time to discard them. And so, an ancient and unique world came to an end. One can only imagine how phenomenal such boxers must have been. In their world they routinely faced death, and were the last true believers in the sacred disciplines of boxing, breathing, and magic.
Source:
IKF February 1982. page 66.
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Post by Suhana LIM on Feb 19, 2005 23:19:27 GMT -5
BOXING, BREATHING AND MAGIC. by James Hanna. ************ Superbly conditioned fighters equipped with a sincere belief in their own immortality, the Red Spears may have been the last of China's truly phenomenal warriors. *********** . And so, an ancient and unique world came to an end. One can only imagine how phenomenal such boxers must have been. In their world they routinely faced death, and were the last true believers in the sacred disciplines of boxing, breathing, and magic. Source: IKF February 1982. page 66. Da jia ni men hao It's very unfortunate, so many ancient arts and skills disappeared. Maybe what is left today only "crumbles" compared what people used to possessed century ago. Cheers.
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Post by Sam Tong on May 23, 2005 19:41:58 GMT -5
One critical link which many ignore in JSM Ward's book is the connection with western speculative Freemasonry and Chinese secret societies. Why do so many "Chinese" associations identify themselves as "Freemasons"? And no, it is not simply a "convienant cover" to throw the authorities off some trail.
I agree with the above posters that many of these original societies were benevolent in nature before being upsurped by criminal elements (an unfortunate Western example is the rise of the KKK - an offshoot of Freemasons who were intolerant towards other faiths / peoples and therefore left the Craft in bad standing).
Those kungfu practioners (especially Hakka styles) - and fellow Freemasons should be able to follow many of the shared ethics, values, and signs of recognition. I should add however, that the London Grand Lodge does not recognize "Chinese Freemasonry" aside from being that of a clandestine lodge.
Interesting topic!
Cheers - Sam Tong
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