Originally my roots were Shaolin Kempo and later I qualified myself as a karate teacher by the Karate Do Bond Nederland. But in 1986 I decided to focus 100% on Southern Boxing, so I disagreeistent took over the school. Sold most of my books and neglect most of it. Still some of my old students have schools and I am an examinator of this school. So still affinity with it, especially saifa, which is an important concept in Shaolin Kempo as done in the Netherlands.
This morning I visit Russ Smith his homepage and did download the clips with relations to Chinese Boxing. To be honest I am fascinated again with those performances and can observe them now through Cantonese glasses.
In this forum we use to compare systems and analyse 'ingredients' out of the form, such as Lohan and Crane. But it is not really concrete (for me) and a focused search. I thought about an idea which I like to discuss with all of you. What do you think if we are going to discuss the ingredients of Chinese orientated kata's and see how far we can analyse them? Together we cover a rather broad range of systems. I am sure that this path might be very interesting for all of us.
So we are NOT critisizing the performer, but will look to movements. actions and try to lable this to a kind of animal, element and direction (Northern, Southern, Lohan, Plum blossom...)
We take one kata at a time, as mentioned in one of the threads. For instance starting with Saifa?
Post by Gojumaster on Jan 16, 2005 11:36:10 GMT -5
Wow, that's a lot of grumpy faces!! Is it still raining there? I think you're needing some sunny days!
Anyhow, yes, I am familiar with that site, the demonstrator, and fairly familiar with that form. The problem with mentioning just "Paiho" is that in Okinawan "Hakutsuru" forms, the terms Hakucho, Paiho, Hakkaku, Hakutsuru, Hakufa, and Kakufa all refer to (usually) very similar forms.
The majority of "Hakutsuru" forms coming out of Okinawan and Japanese karate follow pretty closely with the techniques and structure of that form, which comes from nutso-ryu, and supposedly Gokenki (Wu that we discussed earlier).
This format is also similar to the forms coming from my weapons system branch, Matayoshi Kobudo, where there are some forms supposedly coming from Gokenki and / or another Chinese known as Kin-Gai Ryoshi.
** Before I start giving any kind of analysis, nothing is meant against any system or practitioner. I do not know one of the teachers. Presented text are my personal opinion only. No offense!
I observed three versions of Saifa, as downloaded on Russ Smith his homepage. The form is different then the ones as practiced in Shaolin Kempo. The opening of Tada is the way we open in TSK, only more with awareness and in slow motion. I notice no salute in the beginning nor end. If Saifa should mean Lion Boxing, then I am afraid that the relation with Cantonese Lion Boxing, is far away. More about that later……
I am very impressed about Yanase his performance, I can read his body and its application, good explosions. I have a strong Lo Han feeling when I look closer to his performance. The division of the kicks is nice, and not Crane (Eric?). The ending part is typical Fukien Boxing, and NOT Cantonese Boxing.
Sometimes the stances were rather deep, and especially in Tada’s case I had some Shotokan sensations.
Robert Hui mentioned to me – on his forum – that “Sai” Fa could be a form seen as done with the weapon Sai, but also the same form without a Sai. The funny thing was, that I got VERY strong associations with a partnerset I learned in Pak Mei. It was the spear against the Sai. Suddenly I had the idea that I was doing a Pak Mei Pai ‘Saifa’ partner set. The backfist was a throwing out the Sai weapon. Etceteras. Okay, enough about this.
Conclusion: For me it is hard to judge, but my personal opinion is that it is not related to Lion Boxing. Also the way the performers shows this form was not Fujianese, Cantonese or Hakka- ish. But I must convince that my thoughts are still in the Hakka culture. Oh yes, some Lohan skills is being seen.