Connections between Katas & CKF Forms ?

[Eric Ling]

Hi Cody,

Dynamic tension – there is no one particular standard in Southern CKF San Chin. They come in different shades.

Some styles spotlight the “swallowing, spitting, sinking and floating” more. With these folks, the tensing is not that foremost in their San Chin. Rather you see and hear more breathing co-ordination with movements of every part of the body.

Then there are also others that do San Chin for “iron shirt” training. I spoke about this in other thread. Muscular tension then becomes very obvious. And you also see techniques like “chopping” oneself in the abs region. In Fuzhou White Crane, I do one of these forms with slapping of the chest to do the spitting.

Cody lets leave the nitty-gritty of breathing, tension and focus to later.

I got here a recent product from China – Flying Crane San Chin. This is one of the forms covered in the Chinese publication “He Quan” or “Crane Fist”.

[Gojumaster]

Here are some of the important concepts, techniques, and principles I have been taught regarding the performance of Goju-Ryu's Sanchin kata.

Upper-body

• Shoulders down
  
• Back straight and chin down
  
• Elbows close to the body
  
• Punching technique (elbows down)
  
• Punch and block on return
  
• Pulling in and down
  
• Understanding of performance and application of "Mawashi-Uke"
  

Lower Body

• Weight evenly distributed
  
• Groin protected
  
• Knees protected
  
• Aggressive, circular stepping technique
  
• Smooth movement, without bobbing up and down
  
• Controlled stepping, keeping the entire foot flat, sliding and searching with the foot.
  
• Each step is initiated by contracting and pulling the foot in, and expanding out to the next step. This assists in defending against foot sweeps, and helps in attacking the attacker's root.
  

Entire body

• Concentration of energy from ground into punching technique.
  
• Slow tempo gives the student the time to think and self-correct structural and technique problems.
  
• Sanchin Testing ("Shime") in Goju-Ryu is much less sever than Uechi-ryu, and used to assist the performer in awareness of parts of the body not locked.
  
• Sanchin breathing assists the user in exhaling when attacking, and reserving a small amount of air that
  keeps the user from having the wind knocked out of them if struck.
  
• Visualization of chi movement is often taught, and coincides with stepping and hand movements.
  

Eric said:

Hi folks,

Starting a fresh topic that is nothing “new” – been around in other forums for quite a bit now.

The connections between Katas and CFK Forms – the history, progression and everything else.

I know there will be some of you out there who will go;” Oh no, not again”. But, I think this forum will derive something different from our exchanges considering the diversified backgrounds of members.

Okay before we all go running off in every directions, let start with San Chin Kata.

Remember, we are exploring “CONNECTIONS” .

Methodically, I think we should:-

• Talk about passed down histories.
• Examine form and structure both external and internal.
• Principles.

Can I get a Karata-ka to open this topic please?

And only fighting allowed is over a couple of Carlsberg. ;D ;D ;D

[CEB]

I’m a pretty simple physical mechanics oriented kind of guy. Russ covered Sanchin basics pretty well.

Something I have thought about recently is something my teacher said once a long time ago. When we breathe in Sanchin it is a hot breath not a cool breath. I have often thought I did not really fully understand the depth of what he was getting at. If you do Sanchin properly the breath is hot as opposed to mouth breathing as if you are cool your food by blowing on it.

When we practice Sanchin our bodies get very hot. I don’t know. Maybe I am trying to make something out of nothing. I have just been thinking how breathing in Sanchin may be related to the body heating/cooling process. Maybe I should think about this more before I throw this on the forum for comment. After all I don’t even know how to ask whatever it is I’m asking.

Any thought on heating and cooling processes through Sanchin breathing? I guess I may be getting into the world of Qi which I don’t understand so well.

I remember practicing forms with my Taiji teacher and he would tell me to move my qi and I would ask how do I move it? He would tell me to think it and it would go there. Then I ask I do I know if it is really moving? Maybe the problem is that I am Presbyterian. I do understand if I do proper Taiji stepping and hit full relaxed body weight I can hit very hard. I have trouble with things I can’t see.

FWIW - I terms of Sanchin performance I have taught different 3 ways to do Sanchin kata. The 3 methods are also reflected in the way in which we do the Sanchin postures in the beginnings of our advanced forms.

2 ways are slow. 1 way is fast. 1 of the slow ways is for building muscular strength and my teacher thinks I should not practice it that way much anymore because of my age. I don’t feel that old. Well, some days I do I guess.

Also the way we start forms like Shisochin, Sanseiru, Seisan, and Suparunpei depend on where we at developmentally. Sensei told me that after I learned Seisan then it becomes practitioner’s choice how the other forms are executed. Seisan is very advanced from for us.

Sorry if this is not coherent.

Gambatte Kudasai.

[Eric Ling]

Hi everybody,

I posted a page sometime back comparing Karate’s Tensho and NCK’s San Chiem (Gm Chee’s line).

Posting this entire article here.

Hope to get tongues waggling on this topic.

Rob, frankly, I am a bit surprised when you said “Swallowing, spitting, sinking and floating” is alien to your system.

I could have sworn that Shi-To folks use this concept in SanChin and Tensho.

But then again, I could be absolutely wrong – only a landscaper blah blah blah…………

[Kosokun]

Hi Eric,

Eric said:

Hi everybody,


Rob, frankly, I am a bit surprised when you said “Swallowing, spitting, sinking and floating” is alien to your system.

Not quite what I said. What I said is that in my experience, I've not heard those terms used. We seem to take a more mechanical vs. metaphysical approach. I can clearly see the silk reeling, swallowing, spitting, sinking and floating elements in what we do, but we just don't talk about it. Or Ki (Ch'i ) for that matter.

Rob

[Eric Ling]

Okay,

Reposting a page from MingHe’s Babulien. The earlier one posted was too fuzzy.

I think this form is practiced in Karate as Happoren – someone please confirm this for me?

Again I must express my heartfelt appreciation to all the various Whooping Crane families throughout SE Asia for their unselfish support to my cause – compiling and preserving info about Fuzhou Cranes.

And it could have nothing to do with me and my efforts. I really think it my late Sifu’s repute among Fuzhou Crane fraternity.

It appears that everywhere I go, I mention my lineage, doors open…………

Ps. For those of you who read Mandarin, notice that the 5 elements hands are included in this version of Babulien.

[Eric Ling]

Kosokun said:

Hi Eric,



Not quite what I said. What I said is that in my experience, I've not heard those terms used. We seem to take a more mechanical vs. metaphysical approach. I can clearly see the silk reeling, swallowing, spitting, sinking and floating elements in what we do, but we just don't talk about it. Or Ki (Ch'i ) for that matter.

Rob

Arrh now you know why I am more known as a landscaper.......

Anyway, care to share how you do your "internal" katas?

Or is this another term you don't use?

Thank you Sir.

[Kosokun]

You know, having studied a bit of Hsing-i and Yang TCC, I don' t think I know what internal vs. external is any more.
When I converse with TCC and Hsing-i instr's and ask them to describe how they punch, I don't see any difference between that and the way I and my karate collegues punch. So, the designation internal vs. external has lost its meaning for me.

Rob

Eric said:

Arrh now you know why I am more known as a landscaper.......

Anyway, care to share how you do your "internal" katas?

Or is this another term you don't use?

Thank you Sir.

[Eric Ling]

Hi folks,

Another rendition of the same Babulien - this time performed by the late GM Huang Yi Ying.

This collection is one of my most priced.