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Post by essence on Nov 7, 2004 3:44:16 GMT -5
Good day people.
Before anything, please excuse my ignorance on this matter.
I would like to find out more about famous karatekas like Mas Oyama. Not too familiar with other famous karatekas as my Sifu (Hung Gar) only talked about Mas Oyama.
I don't know if Musashi is a karateka, but I find his philosophy on the way of the warrior fascinating as well.
I am very intrigued with these people who had great achievements in their martial pursuits and would like to find out more.
Thank you in advance.
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Seeker
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Posts: 71
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Post by Seeker on Nov 7, 2004 6:38:37 GMT -5
Good day people. Before anything, please excuse my ignorance on this matter. I would like to find out more about famous karatekas like Mas Oyama. Not too familiar with other famous karatekas as my Sifu (Hung Gar) only talked about Mas Oyama. I don't know if Musashi is a karateka, but I find his philosophy on the way of the warrior fascinating as well. I am very intrigued with these people who had great achievements in their martial pursuits and would like to find out more. Thank you in advance. Warmest regards, Tze Hou Okay then, thanks for the intrest, first off Minyamoto Musashi, the famous swords man was actually not a Karate-ka (karate practicioner) he was a samurai in the 17th century I think. His philospohy was upheld by all samurai, it and its ways are called Bushido (lit."Way of the warrior.") there is alot to it, but I recommend the book "Bubishi" translated by William Scott Wilson, it was written by a samurai in the 1700's over a 7 year period, and was a secret text of the Nabunishima (sp) clan for years, untl translated. Mas Oyama created Kyokoshin kai, he was actually of Korean decent and founded a Japanese martial art. Kyokoshin kai is still new, newer that Aikido, and reallly its own art, it is very rough, with full contact free sparring, which is very dangerous. To name a few others, Itsou Anko, Choyu Motobu, Chokki Motobu, Seikichi Uehara, Gichen Funakoshi (Founder of SHotokan), Kusanku, "Bushi" Sakugawa, Taika Oyata (Head of Ryu Te Renmei), and there are numourous others, but the topic is two broad, I need specifc karate-ka froma praticular style to really elaborate. Thanks, --Josh Paszkieiwicz
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Post by essence on Nov 7, 2004 8:08:46 GMT -5
Good day Josh.
Thanks for the reply.
My main interest lies in Kyokoshin, the style created by Mas Oyama. I am very intrigued by his achievements. I was told he achieved his fighting ability by going into seclusion in the mountains for a period of time.
One question, you speak of Kyokushin as an art unto itself and not part of the Karate family, whereas people I have come into contact with refer to it as a Karate style. Is it or isn't it?
Also, very curious as to the fighting style of Shotokan, as this seems to be a very popular style among my friends who are practitioners. Whenever I ask them about their style, they only tell me "Karate teaches you to fight by not fighting" and won't tell me more. Is there any reason to this secrecy?
Thank you in advance.
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Seeker
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by Seeker on Nov 7, 2004 8:26:15 GMT -5
Good day Josh. Thanks for the reply. My main interest lies in Kyokoshin, the style created by Mas Oyama. I am very intrigued by his achievements. I was told he achieved his fighting ability by going into seclusion in the mountains for a period of time. One question, you speak of Kyokushin as an art unto itself and not part of the Karate family, whereas people I have come into contact with refer to it as a Karate style. Is it or isn't it? Also, very curious as to the fighting style of Shotokan, as this seems to be a very popular style among my friends who are practitioners. Whenever I ask them about their style, they only tell me "Karate teaches you to fight by not fighting" and won't tell me more. Is there any reason to this secrecy? Thank you in advance. Warmest regards, Tze Hou Hello again. By no means am I an expert in Kyokoshin kai and not really an enthusiest, but I have some knowledge of the art. I suppose you could call it a member of the "karate" family, but it is really kind of its own thing, different philisophys ect. As far as Mas Oyama s concerend there are many stories about him, but it is hard to distinguish truth from myth, it is a possibility that he did this, but it was not where he learned how to fight. As a young child, nine years of age, Oyama began studying Southern Chinese Kempo under the instruction of Mr. Yi, an employee on the estate owned by Oyama's father. In September of this 1938, Mas Oyama became a student of Gichin Funakoshi, Shotokan Karate founder, at the Takushoku University. He eventually gained a nidan (sencond degree black belt) under Funakoshi. He also was in the Japanese air force/military academy and recived fighting instruction there Well there is really not too much special about Shotokan, and no reason for secrecy, at all... You can learn about all of the art on the inernet, and in the founder Gichen Funakoshi's book (karate do kyohan) it is more or less a watered down version of Okinawan Shuri Te, and al of the kata's were changes, many things were cahnged due to Funakoshi wanting to make it popular on the mainl and of Japan. It is considered a Japanese art, founded and made popular by an Okinawan, everything in Shotokan, is face value more or less. Thanks, --Josh
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Post by essence on Nov 7, 2004 9:10:42 GMT -5
Hi Josh,
Thank you for that information.
Could you further explain Okinawan Karate, as in, is that its name? Or is there another name, i.e. Oyama?
What constitutes this style? I have heard that this style is very close to Chinese kung fu. Is the basis of this style like most karate styles, i.e. straight punches?
Any information you can offer is greatly appreciated.
Warmest regards, Tze Hou
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Post by Eric Ling on Nov 7, 2004 10:00:25 GMT -5
Hi Josh, Something else to keep you busy:- Oftentimes I have been told that Okinawa Karate is VERY different from Japanese Karate. Some of these include - - Okinawan Karate is more circular and softer. And even more "internal" focused. - That I would see more co-relation between Karate and CKF looking at Okinawa Karate. - Japanese Karate is just an abridged version of the real thing etc etc.. What are your views? I am simply repeating what I hear so please be kind.
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Seeker
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by Seeker on Nov 12, 2004 22:51:17 GMT -5
Hi Josh, Thank you for that information. Could you further explain Okinawan Karate, as in, is that its name? Or is there another name, i.e. Oyama? What constitutes this style? I have heard that this style is very close to Chinese kung fu. Is the basis of this style like most karate styles, i.e. straight punches? Any information you can offer is greatly appreciated. Warmest regards, Tze Hou Hello again, I know Ive been away but I do my best. Okinawan Karate, is a gneral name for all karate styles that have their origin the the RyuKyu Islands, south of Japan, with Okinawan being the main island. The three original styles were Shuri Te (Te means hand in Japanese) Naha Te ect. To define "Okinawan Karate" is a very broad term as would be "Quan Fa" (Gung Fu, Kung Fu) but over all Okinawan karate has its roots in Chinese Kung Fu, and it utlizes vital points and Tuite, wihich is Joint locks ect. If you have seocific questions Id be glad to help you out, but I cannot define Okinawan karate as a whole, but it is not like Japanese "Shotokan" --Josh
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Seeker
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Posts: 71
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Post by Seeker on Nov 12, 2004 22:55:41 GMT -5
Hi Josh, Something else to keep you busy:- Oftentimes I have been told that Okinawa Karate is VERY different from Japanese Karate. Some of these include - - Okinawan Karate is more circular and softer. And even more "internal" focused. - That I would see more co-relation between Karate and CKF looking at Okinawa Karate. - Japanese Karate is just an abridged version of the real thing etc etc.. What are your views? I am simply repeating what I hear so please be kind. Hello Sifu Ling, yes Okinawna Kara-Te is different that Japanese Karate (Shotokan, Wado Ryu ect.) It tends to be more cicular as it is more chinese based, but has vital points ect. As far as softer, some styles are soft, some are hard, just depends, but most "good" styles are both. as far as I will adrewss tomorrow as it is very late. And yes Japanese karate is watered down version of the real thing (okinawan) because some wanted the karate to be excepted on the Japanese mainland so the "refined " (destroyed) and made mre flashy and stylized so it would be widly accepted as a sport, which it is not it is a "martial" art. It is very late not, and I will be back on tomorwwo to address more specifics. Yours in the arts, --josh
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Post by pitbull on Nov 13, 2004 10:02:55 GMT -5
can you please elaborate on the subject of 'watering' down...im very much interested...thanks...
what was watered down? i understand that japanese karate doesnt have kobudo and thats all i know about the watering down....
how about kyokushinkai? why people consider it as another species of karate rather than part of karate family?
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Post by pitbull on Nov 13, 2004 10:03:42 GMT -5
or was it bec its developed by a korean?
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Seeker
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by Seeker on Nov 13, 2004 15:12:27 GMT -5
can you please elaborate on the subject of 'watering' down...im very much interested...thanks... what was watered down? i understand that japanese karate doesnt have kobudo and thats all i know about the watering down.... how about kyokushinkai? why people consider it as another species of karate rather than part of karate family? Hllo thanks for the intrest, Yes Japanese karate does not include kobudo, this is watering down, but ti is more than that for instance, much of the karate Bunkai was removed, and traditional training and techniques the Funakoshi deemed "unsuitable" Funakoshi wanted to make Karate a sport, and karate cannot be a sport, the real karate any way, it is a martial arts, a way od defending ones life and the life of others, ot to play around in a ring and pull punches to score points. As far as Kyukoshinkai, it has some karate values, but mainly it was develpoed as another specics the korean, Mas Oyama created. I am not an expert on Kyu Ko Shin Kai, but I do know that :0 Regaurds, --Josh
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Post by pitbull on Nov 13, 2004 20:17:51 GMT -5
thanks for the explanation... what are things that he omitted? how were they unfit? does this include conditioning?
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Seeker
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Posts: 71
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Post by Seeker on Nov 13, 2004 22:44:45 GMT -5
thanks for the explanation... what are things that he omitted? how were they unfit? does this include conditioning? Well Funakoshi altered most of the kata's to the point that they are only a resemblnce to the original, this included removing 98% of all of the bunkai. Because he wanted to make it a sport (an acceptable to the Japanese) he removed most of all things besides punches and kicks that he deemed unsuitable for sport. This is why he is called "The Father of Modern Karate" You see, there are three types of Karate to [li]Classical [li]Traditional [li]Modern Classical is a Martial arts, developed for use on the battle front an to really protect ones or others lives. Traditional is an art altered from classical after the Meji Restoration (sometime in the 1600's) when the emphesis shifted from martial ways to a more mental spiritual approach. Then there is modern which was the karate if G. Funakoshi when the emphesis was again shifted to sport, and that is what alot of schools are today. A true martial art could never be a sport as it is too dangerous, and that is why G.Funakoshi altered it. As far as conditioning the only device I have seen left from Funakoshi Shotokan and breakoffs, is the Makiwara punchi board (device) --Josh
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Post by pitbull on Nov 14, 2004 8:37:00 GMT -5
thank you very much for helping me on this subject...before i commence i would like to apologize to the japanese karatekas if i may sound wrong since i have no other terms to use,i hope i dont start something out...so,does this mean that japanese karate is somehow inferior to okinawan karate? i was talking to a karateka(shotokan most probably) and he told me that in japan they are starting to bring back the old ways bec karate is deteriorating in a fast rate bec they dont actually hit the opponent and stop millimeters from contact. and has become too sport oriented. is this what we are talking about..again,no offense intended japanese karate friends. im actually thinking that this is too sensitive a topic to talk about...but i started it already...
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Seeker
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by Seeker on Nov 14, 2004 9:06:19 GMT -5
Hello, not a problem. First off we have to remember that karate is okinawan, kind of like a sequel is never as good as the original kind of thing, most people even 60-75% on okinawa have gone to far of track to get back to the original ways. But we are talking about Japan, karate is not native to Japan, again Okinawa, however, Japan had martial arts before Karate i.e. Iaido, Kenjutsu, Kendo, Ju-jitsu, Judo, Aikido, Aki-jitsu, senbu ect. So what I am thinking if they are taking karate back to the old ways, they are enstilling the warrior spirit of Japan into karate, taking back to old Japanese ways and martial values, but not original classical Okinawan. I practice Japanese and Okinawan martial arts, they oth have ups and downs, but that is probebly what is going on
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