2 holds

[essence]

Good day everybody.

2 holds which have puzzled me on how to break them are the wrist lock and the sleeper hold/choke hold.

Anyone able to shed some light on how they would be able to break out of such a hold?

Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

[Suhana LIM]

Da jia ni men hao

Don't let your opponent to have the chances of grabbing your wrist or your neck
Cheers.

[essence]

Good day Suhana.

Ah avoiding is perhaps a good move, but in the event that such you become the victim of such a Chin Na technique, how would you be able to break it?

I chose these 2 techniques because they are said to be almost unbreakable, therefore, all the more I want to seek the way to break it.

Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

[Suhana LIM]

Tze Hou ni hao
If someone happened to hold the wrist or hold the neck, I prefer not to break the hold. Like you mentioned, these two regarded as the most difficult to break. In my humble knowledge, I prefer to "hold" his groin or other vital parts.
Cheers.

[Kalista]

Don't let yourself get into the hold. Any hold applied by a skilled person once "set" can be difficult to counter. As to the "sleeper hold", it's a carotid restraint (supresses oxygenated blood flow to the brain) not a true choke. Wrist locks are much easier to "defeat". I've used the carotid restraint about 50 or so times in "combative situations", it's a fight ender.

[Eric Ling]

Kalista said:

Don't let yourself get into the hold. Any hold applied by a skilled person once "set" can be difficult to counter. As to the "sleeper hold", it's a carotid restraint (supresses oxygenated blood flow to the brain) not a true choke. Wrist locks are much easier to "defeat". I've used the carotid restraint about 50 or so times in "combative situations", it's a fight ender.

50 times?

Are you a pro fighter?

Or just a fighter not a lover?

;D ;D ;D

[essence]

Good day people.

I see, I agree that trying to break such holds could result in breaking your own joint. It is indeed a great puzzle for me.

As kalista said, the sleeper hold is a fight ender, from what I heard, 10-15 seconds and it's lights out, which is not a lot of time at all, especially if the person is behind you.

Well, I will ask around and see if anyone is able to offer me a solution to this riddle, and I will share it here if I do come across any answers.

Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

[Kalista]

Nah. It's just an occupational hazard. I have spent over 30 years in law enforcement. I have worked some bad areas- not a lot of positive "contacts". Additionally I've taught police officers defensive tactics since 1978.

The carotid restraint is one of the most effective "empty hands"methods to control someone with little risk of injury. Of course, you still need good timing and entry skills for it to work as advertised; and some situations require other tactics.

[Hungfist]

Some things to try to counter the sleeper - To defend against it, hold an arm in front of your neck and tuck your chin as someone attempts to apply the lock, then use your free arm to counterattack the assailant. Once the hold has been applied, turn your chin into the crook of the choking arm, while raising your shoulders and pushing down with your chin to relieve some of the choking pressure. Try to bite the arm. Reach backward and try to peel off the fingers of the arm that is behind your head to weaken the choke so you may escape. If you have a hard, pointed object, jab into the attacker's hands or arms.

[essence]

Good day Hungfist.

A good idea to turn into the crook of the elbow, but would that not put his forearm and bicep directly where pressure should be applied to cut the blood supply? I assume a simple lifting of the hip would then render me helpless to succumb to unconsciousness.

Would there be a way to ensure the hold is broken? Biting, I would think, if you have a chance to do it, would make him release the hold very quickly, plus you could possibly take off a piece of his meat.

Are there no ways in which to completely be confident of breaking these holds? Are these 2 really the ultimate holds?

Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

[Hungfist]

essence said:

Good day Hungfist.

A good idea to turn into the crook of the elbow, but would that not put his forearm and bicep directly where pressure should be applied to cut the blood supply? I assume a simple lifting of the hip would then render me helpless to succumb to unconsciousness.

Would there be a way to ensure the hold is broken? Biting, I would think, if you have a chance to do it, would make him release the hold very quickly, plus you could possibly take off a piece of his meat.

Are there no ways in which to completely be confident of breaking these holds? Are these 2 really the ultimate holds?

Warmest regards,
Tze Hou

I think that what you are saying may be accurate - to be completely confident of breaking these holds, or perhaps any hold, may depend on how quickly you can realize that this hold is being performed on you.

From my understanding, once the choke hold is 'in place' you are unconsious in between 5-10 secs - if you waste a couple of seconds grabbing the arm - in the classic I am being choked move - you're are on your way to unconsiousness and ultimately defeat.

The wrist - I pondered this for a while. I know that no matter the size of the opponent the wrist, elbow and knees are joints that are simple to break. Hung Ga teaches a multitude of ways (as I am sure other CMA's do) to break arms and legs. I know this doesnt really answer your question and probably raises more questions than it answers. Perhaps that is the reason we ask them.

[HUNG GAR]

....play possum....