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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 15, 2004 20:43:10 GMT -5
Da jia ni men hao Forgive me for not showing up in the forum for the past days. It was a NT virus that crippled my computer. I've to visit library in order to keep in touch with you all, my belover brothers and sisters ;D I never expected to created "chaos" in racial issue. But again that is my personal view. I believe everybody entitle to their own opinion. We are different and even our hairs are the same color but our thinking not the same. I am not saying that non Chinese can't reach the same level as the Chinese. What I am saying is that it will take an extra effort for the non Chinese to absorb the Chinese arts. To be fair, we have to compare both individual with the same knowledge and experience. We can not compare school teacher with primary student, compare master chef with kitchen hand, etc. If I have to choose between two good sifu (with the same quality), then I will choose the one from Chinese background. But if I want to learn how to make good sushi, I will definetly choose the Japanese chef , not the Indonesian chef. Even both of them are equally good. Again that is my opinion. I know for some it's a bit extreme. Excuse me for this. PS. This mentioning the "excuse me" for something that may offend other is also part of the culture I inherited and grown up with. Might be "funny" for the people from different cultutre to understand why I have to do that. Cheers. Hey Suhana, Nin Hao. Hope you and your computer are feeling much better. Welcome back. ;D No need to apologise for anything you said. Appreciate your candour. No need to be politically correct in this forum. We don't fight over differences that is all. Like I said; you drink coffee, I drink tea. So what is the big deal? We still sit at the same table and enjoy our own poison. Again, good to hear from you again. Now where is that doggie..........
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 15, 2004 20:47:59 GMT -5
Eric Ling: My mother's family's name is Chong (Zhang). Do you know the complete name of this master? We could be talking about the same person here. My maternal grandpa was actually a Chinese Singaporean who moved to Singkawang. Talking to some more folks about this Sifu Chong. Might have located one of his few students here in Kuching. Are you familiar with St. Joseph school here ? I've been told that the gardener/janitor there is a student of Sifu Chong. Need to find time to talk to him and hopefully get a clearer picture. Thanks.
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 15, 2004 21:40:28 GMT -5
Eric ni hao
Do you think that the virus might be slipped thru the forum? Anyone else experienced similar problem? Cheers.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 15, 2004 21:51:12 GMT -5
Hi Suhana,
Always practise safe computing. I have all sorts of anti-virus and anti-spyware/adware running when I log on.
You'll never know what kind of sickos we got running loose in cyberworld.
And when I receive "funny" emails with attachments, I make sure I do a "Scan/Download". A lot of these viruses are introduced in this mode.
I don't think it is this forum - Proboards has got their server's protection - I think.
Just be more careful - I know what it's like to get infected. Happened to me not too long ago - had to re-format and reload my OS. Real pain.
Luckily, I got my wife's system to borrow - hehehe.
She got a Apple system that she uses for her design work. ;D
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Post by Suhana LIM on Oct 15, 2004 21:57:37 GMT -5
Eric ni hao As a novice in IT, I really appreciate your advice and tips sifu Ling Btw, any dodol durian in Serawak? I've relatives in Pontianak, I used to have them sent to me. Very very yum. Sorry, we are talking Sam Chien here Cheers.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 16, 2004 2:18:31 GMT -5
So, this is a general questions about leg movements in san zhan? Which is also the foundation for the arts ... I think I gave my opinion in the "hip movement" thread, but nobody takes it that seriously . Hip is the initiation or the seed, but rooting is everything. Arms are just for power transfer. A smaller person should have a wider stance to get more rooting, but a bigger person should have not a stance too wide which will actually be less efficient for him for rooting. Stances should be floating until it is needed to generate power. Hi guys, Another can of worms, as far as I am concerned. Difference in footwork doctrines is great. I would go as far as saying fundamentally deep. The old kung fu maxim:”Northern styles - one stance one techniques. Southern styles - one stance many techniques.” - Gives you an idea of this great divide. In the South, we say “Luo Ti Shen Gen”. This roughly means every movement must be properly rooted for power generation. Whether you use the hip (kua) or the legs, this is a must. Nothingness, the thing that I concur with you is the hands – just the tools to conduct this power and not the power source. Even “inch power” derives energy this manner. Whether you do it in Wing Chun, Hung Gar, Ngo Chor or peho, the concept is identical. The Fukienese and Cantonese has each got their varied ways of describing and training as far as I see it. TSK, however, is one cut above. Emotion driven energy releases talk about triggers that are really high level skill. Whether to stay “floating” before execution or not again is stylistic difference. Some styles do this some style doesn’t. Wing Chun is one good example – always guarded and still until the point of execution. They are constantly looking for the fastest way to jam your centerline to immobilize you. Other Southern style like Siao Lim advocates walking the “mei hua” or blossom footwork pattern. This entails moving in and out and around your opponent to look for striking opportunities. To me, there are skin-deep differences. If you look closer, there is no running away from the “chaat luk” principle of power generation. The legs dig in, the hip rotates, the shoulders tighten and the hands transfer the force outwards. The hands staying loose until almost point of contact. My Siao Lim Sifu liked to use the term “chaat luk” or joints power. All the joints must work in unison and locking at the right moment to create max power. This is sometimes done in a much exaggerated manner by some TKD players – you see them bobbing to “create” this energy. Now if we bring Kao Kun or Southern Monkey Boxing into the picture, everything changes. The energy they use is totally unusual. When you are jumping, rolling and running around, staying rooted would be kind of tough.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 16, 2004 2:56:50 GMT -5
Nice story Eric, but I am afraid that you need to say that rooting is not directly linked with feet. Where to begin…….
Three is an important aspect; Heaven - Earth – Man, but also arms, trunk, legs. These three units can be divided again in: twig – trunk – root or: Saau Jit - Chong Jit - Gan Jit”. To give an example; feet is Gan Jit, knees are Chong Jit and thighs are Saau Jit. To continue now with the Kiu Sau – or arms. The Kiu sau is divided in three parts of which the shoulder is Gan Jit, elbow = Chong Jit and the fist/ hands are Saau Jit. Not completely true because - in case of Tsun Kiu or one inch finger poke, the knuckle = Gan Jit, etceteras…………
But – as done also in Tit Sin Kuen, we can change our root also, especially in the keyword Kaau [or leaning]. In this case the hands are Gan Jit, elbow = Chong Kit and the shoulder Saau Jit.
I already have regret starting to reply, but hope you can follow me?
These are principles seen in many martial arts, but hardly explained. I am sure that you recognize them and can link it in many actions. Just basic principles which should be said. I am still disappointed that my question about dynamic activities in feet has not being answered yet. This is so crucial in understanding the nature of Geng in your hand/ fingers. I can wait….
Monkey Boxing do use a different kind of power, as seen in broadsword play and in a way in tennis play too. Look to the service of Federer or Rodthingy, and notice the source of power. Taekwondo also make use of this kind of power during their jumps.
Finally, I promise that this is the last piece of text. Interesting that you mention Mui Fa. Ever notice that we have: Mui Fa Kuen, Mui Fa Cheung, Mui Fa Daan/ Seung Do, Mui Fa Kwan in our curriculum? Although we might link the “Mui Fa towards ”Plumblossom patterns”, please don’t forget that Mui Fa was linked to a religious sect, from this source the Mui Fa system was spread. Maybe this group had the national flower of plumblossom as their icon?? Anyway, our Mui Fa have links with this sect……….
My excuse for this side jump. As usual, it is Eric’s mistake, he is so chaotic, hahahahahaha.
Kind regards,
Evert.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 16, 2004 3:15:48 GMT -5
Nice story Eric, but I am afraid that you need to say that rooting is not directly linked with feet. Where to begin……. Three is an important aspect; Heaven - Earth – Man, but also arms, trunk, legs. These three units can be divided again in: twig – trunk – root or: Saau Jit - Chong Jit - Gan Jit”. To give an example; feet is Gan Jit, knees are Chong Jit and thighs are Saau Jit. To continue now with the Kiu Sau – or arms. The Kiu sau is divided in three parts of which the shoulder is Gan Jit, elbow = Chong Jit and the fist/ hands are Saau Jit. Not completely true because - in case of Tsun Kiu or one inch finger poke, the knuckle = Gan Jit, etceteras………… But – as done also in Tit Sin Kuen, we can change our root also, especially in the keyword Kaau [or leaning]. In this case the hands are Gan Jit, elbow = Chong Kit and the shoulder Saau Jit. I already have regret starting to reply, but hope you can follow me? These are principles seen in many martial arts, but hardly explained. I am sure that you recognize them and can link it in many actions. Just basic principles which should be said. I am still disappointed that my question about dynamic activities in feet has not being answered yet. This is so crucial in understanding the nature of Geng in your hand/ fingers. I can wait…. Monkey Boxing do use a different kind of power, as seen in broadsword play and in a way in tennis play too. Look to the service of Federer or Rodthingy, and notice the source of power. Taekwondo also make use of this kind of power during their jumps. Finally, I promise that this is the last piece of text. Interesting that you mention Mui Fa. Ever notice that we have: Mui Fa Kuen, Mui Fa Cheung, Mui Fa Daan/ Seung Do, Mui Fa Kwan in our curriculum? Although we might link the “Mui Fa towards ”Plumblossom patterns”, please don’t forget that Mui Fa was linked to a religious sect, from this source the Mui Fa system was spread. Maybe this group had the national flower of plumblossom as their icon?? Anyway, our Mui Fa have links with this sect………. My excuse for this side jump. As usual, it is Eric’s mistake, he is so chaotic, hahahahahaha. Kind regards, Evert. Dear Mr. Flyng Dutchman, Before we proceed any further into calling each other names. please note that :- Jit in Cantonese = Chaat in Fukien = joints in English. Lek in Cantonese = Luk in Fukien = power/energy in English. "Kaau" are we talking weight distribution here ? As for being chaotic, you have obviously not heard of "method in madness". Thanks.
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 16, 2004 3:37:28 GMT -5
Sorry Mister Carlsberg,
It is hard for me writing terms in Cantonese, and of course find it in mandarin as well. Now, I must try to start learning Fukien too? Man, I live in Holland! Maybe people are thinking that I am not a farmer making [and eating] cheese. Then I can't wear my wooden shoes anymore and eat raw fish [haring]..... But, I promise, from now on I will try to memorize Fukien too.
Translations:
Gan Jit = Gen Jie. Chong Jit = Zhong Jie, Saau Jit = Shao Jie. Geng = Jin, Lik = Li Mui Fa = Mei Hua, Kaau = Kao = lean on...... as in Tai Chi Chuan, the shoulder strike.
Please elaborate me in the "method of madness". I know that you mastered this method in the slightest detail. So I am thrilled that you are willing to give me my first lesson. Thank you, Sifu! I will be a good student.
Sincerely,
Flying Dutchman
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Post by nothingness on Oct 16, 2004 5:07:38 GMT -5
Ling Sifu,
There can be differences even within one style. You are right, the "floating" is just my preference. My sifu uses a much wider stance because he is of a small stature. He taught me not to use a stance that's too wide. I am relatively big so I need to really pay attention on my mobility. Hence, I might have a relatively more "floating" stance than my sifu.
To raise another issue: Is power generation of one style similar to another at the higher level of both styles? I start to notice some patterns from wuzuquan, baihequan, taijiquan (Chen in particular), bajiquan, and xingyiquan. The difference is it might be spiraled up or spiraled down.
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Post by nothingness on Oct 16, 2004 5:14:50 GMT -5
Talking to some more folks about this Sifu Chong. Might have located one of his few students here in Kuching. Are you familiar with St. Joseph school here ? I've been told that the gardener/janitor there is a student of Sifu Chong. Need to find time to talk to him and hopefully get a clearer picture. Thanks. Are you in Kuching? I was under the impression that you are in Singapore. I am not familiar with the St. Joseph school. I have a cousin who I think learns SPM. I haven't got a hold of him in 10 years or so. He is about 15 years older from me. He learned it from someone in Singkawang. I'll try to get a hold of him, but he is kind of hard to find.
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 16, 2004 7:08:02 GMT -5
Are you in Kuching? I was under the impression that you are in Singapore. I am not familiar with the St. Joseph school. I have a cousin who I think learns SPM. I haven't got a hold of him in 10 years or so. He is about 15 years older from me. He learned it from someone in Singkawang. I'll try to get a hold of him, but he is kind of hard to find. Yes I am currently living in Kuching. Singapore was my original home until I met my wife....... Fantastic. If you could locate your cousin please let me know. A interesting thing just happened. A gentleman from New York, a frequent visitor to this forum, wrote to me. He is in Kuching to do some kind of research and he is keen to pick up some White Crane. I met him and already we are talking about lessons and stuff. He is going to be stationed here for a year. So you never know who is reading what we are writing. Hehehe
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 16, 2004 9:18:03 GMT -5
Sorry Mister Carlsberg, It is hard for me writing terms in Cantonese, and of course find it in mandarin as well. Now, I must try to start learning Fukien too? Man, I live in Holland! Maybe people are thinking that I am not a farmer making [and eating] cheese. Then I can't wear my wooden shoes anymore and eat raw fish [haring]..... But, I promise, from now on I will try to memorize Fukien too. Translations: Gan Jit = Gen Jie. Chong Jit = Zhong Jie, Saau Jit = Shao Jie. Geng = Jin, Lik = Li Mui Fa = Mei Hua, Kaau = Kao = lean on...... as in Tai Chi Chuan, the shoulder strike. Please elaborate me in the "method of madness". I know that you mastered this method in the slightest detail. So I am thrilled that you are willing to give me my first lesson. Thank you, Sifu! I will be a good student. Sincerely, Flying Dutchman What you eat raw fish??? So who started this first, you guys or the japs??? I highlighted many postings ago that lingoes would be a problem once we start touching on the intellectual aspects of Chinese boxing. Which is why I took special care in replying to Martin’s post in the White Crane thread. I learned everything in Fuzhou – very idiosyncratically. To convey in Mandarin, without losing veracity, requires concentration. Now of course if I have Martin in front of me, I will let my body do the talking. On top of that, different dialect groups denote differently. You are comfortable with Cantonese and all their quirks and I am more at home with Fukien. To meet, we have to cross over to each other's turf using Mandarin as the conduit. I don’t speak Cantonese very well, at least not good enough to engage in handling Kung Fu intricacies. But we’ll find a way – if sometimes we need to make a detour here and there – it’s okay. Looking at forms is no problem, looking at the spirit is more the test. And I think most other members will face this same problem with a Cantonese-speaking Dutch. We are living proof that race is not a deterring factor in mastering Chinese Kung Fu. Laziness to find the way is. And that was your first lesson in “madness”……….
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Post by Eric Ling on Oct 16, 2004 9:23:43 GMT -5
Ling Sifu, To raise another issue: Is power generation of one style similar to another at the higher level of both styles? I start to notice some patterns from wuzuquan, baihequan, taijiquan (Chen in particular), bajiquan, and xingyiquan. The difference is it might be spiraled up or spiraled down. Evert, you want to take this one first ?
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Post by Nataraya on Oct 16, 2004 11:03:47 GMT -5
Spiraling, yes always. Up and down depends upon the Extremity you want to use. I realize these answers are simple, but martial arts are in fact simple. Your notice of the huge overlap in systems about power generation, is 100% correct. There was one root, but the many ancestors gave a personal flavor to it. Some focusing more on health other systems on functionality. At higher levels the final power generation should be the same. Only the path towards generation, can differs per system/ branch, but the goals are the same. Northern as Southern. I have students practice Chen and Baji. I have seen Baihequan and for me the power generation is the same. My student from San Diego [ Justin] practice for a while now, Chen style. Comparing this with TSK, I am astonished to see the overlap. Maybe an outsider will not see this, but looking to details you see that it is the same. Eric can tell you stories about White Crane and Tai Chi, or maybe this was once White Crane Tai Chi? Many things we do not know exactly, but feel that there is a very close relationship. My excuse for answering so open, but it is very tough to describe flavor and taste in detail. Maybe Eric is able to answer this better? Kind regards, Evert. www.yiquan.com.pl/engintro.htmlFor extra clips: www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/www.emptyflower.com/xingyiquan/index.html
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