KPM
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by KPM on Feb 7, 2005 6:06:28 GMT -5
Maybe in your WC there is elbow position off line of the centerline, but in mine there is never a elbow positon while performing Lop sao off centerline so IMO his elbow psotioning is lost, regardless if bon sao is used before hand. We use Lop sao in all kinds of applications without Bon sao preluding it. The idea behind the way we do Lop Sao is to use the body to turn as a unit, instead of just arm strength or movement, to which means someone is pulling you into their own bodies which can be used against you. When using Lop sao you pull them sideways, trying to 1)pull them off balance while 2) opening the body up for attack, not just off balance or into a attack. James www.wingchun-canada.com---Sure. I agree with everything you just said. But keep in mind they are seated, which limits body motion. Again, why they chose to do this seated is unclear. Maybe that was explained in the text. But we have to get away from this tendency to always be very critical of what we see in posted pictures or videos. Often we don't know the context of what was happening. Keith
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PaulH
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by PaulH on Feb 7, 2005 19:25:56 GMT -5
I think personally that chi sau in sitting position is a good training idea of tapping more into your lower body which are the hips in these pictures. The men look very relaxed. I often advice people to do such excercises as above when they use too much upper body power. =)
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Post by kksdad on Feb 9, 2005 8:40:38 GMT -5
Hello, Just to elaborate a little, snakehand appears several times in Yuen Kay San WC - the first time being after the first punch at the beggining of the fiorm - the fist opens and the snake movements are performed and then the hand is withdrawn. to chamber. These photos from Complete Wing Chun show the snakehand; Tthe second time is during the Saam Bai Fut portion of the form as Keith wrote.. The third time follows the pak sao done after the darting fingers section. Finally, video of Mei Gei Wong Wing Chun can be found here: www.wing-chun.cz/en/index.en.htmlRegards, Chris Hi Guys! A few points. Micky Wong is the inheritor of his father's system....Mei Gai Wong WCK. His father's nickname was "Mei Gai" or "Rice Machine" Wong. Their system is very close to Yuen Kay Shan WCK, with some added elements. Their WCK is typically "softer" and more fluid than a lot that you see. Pretty good stuff, though a little too "elaborated" for my taste. Its a shame that various people thru the generations have felt the need to "add to" and "elaborate on" their WCK. It makes getting a good taste of the original somewhat difficult. The "snake hand" is part of the Sam Bai Fut section of the SLT form in both the Mei Gai Wong and Yuen Kay Shan systems. It is pretty much the same as the motion from the Biu Gee form in the Yip Man systems. Thanks! Keith
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Post by Eric Ling on Feb 11, 2005 6:07:09 GMT -5
Got one more different Wing Chun stream for you. According to the article, this is "Canton Wing Chun" as opposed to "Fatshan Wing Chun".
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Post by Jim Roselando on Feb 11, 2005 10:00:16 GMT -5
Hello,
Seated practice is very good to help one sink and stop being top heavy! Just like when one learns Hay Kung they are often taught to practice just sitting first. Just like when one learns WCK/SLT they dont move and are basically stationary. All indications of Stillness and Sinking training component (Zhuang/Jong).
Typically! Lop does not pull sideways as Cheung's version of WC does but there is a a similar action with a different name that does that! Even tho its a form of grabbing the principle is different and hence the different name! I also dont agree with pulling the arm towards the body, as they are demonstrating, but once again (as Kieth mentioned) its just a picture so unless we were there we dont know the context of the exchange or training.
Canton WC or Guangzhou WC is another name for Yuen Kay San/Sum Nung WCK. Many of Sum Sifu's poeple use the term Canton WC.
Regards,
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Post by Eric Ling on Feb 11, 2005 10:58:41 GMT -5
Hello, Canton WC or Guangzhou WC is another name for Yuen Kay San/Sum Nung WCK. Many of Sum Sifu's poeple use the term Canton WC. Regards, Hi Jim, Yes you're right. Re-read the article and it mentioned YKS. 3 forms 12 San Shou 150 Zhuang Shou.............
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PaulH
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by PaulH on Feb 11, 2005 12:51:50 GMT -5
Interesting YKS pics, Eric! It appears they like a more sit back position than a neutral body position. I wonder how they deal with pressure from such position. =)
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Post by Jim Roselando on Feb 11, 2005 14:27:26 GMT -5
Paul! That not a locked position to fight from! YKSWCK (like PSWC) prefers a neutral horse and transitions from there so when you see someone in a 100/0 horse its not to start from but rather a transition that they use to borrow force and counter. Yet! We typically do not use the 100/0 wieghting that most Futshan/Canton WC uses! Except when in Tang Ma! Regards,
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PaulH
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by PaulH on Feb 11, 2005 16:07:23 GMT -5
Hiya Jim,
What's a Tang Ma? Beam me up on this when you have time! Thanks! =D
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Post by Jim Roselando on Feb 11, 2005 17:21:49 GMT -5
Hey Paul!
Tang Ma means (jumping horse)!
Its part of Tang Ma Biu Jee in Leung Jan's Wing Chun from Koo Lo village.
Gotta run!
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YiWan
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by YiWan on Feb 15, 2005 5:46:07 GMT -5
Hi to KPM and all !!! Hi Guys! A few points. Micky Wong is the inheritor of his father's system....Mei Gai Wong WCK. sorry, there is not any "Micky Wong"... We have Wong Jing (teacher of Wong Wu Fong), Wong Wu Fong (nickname "Mai Gei Wong" and father of my sifu) and Wong Nim Yi, my sifu and the inheritor of his father's system. i cant se any "elaborated things" :-) for MY taste :-). See - in last 10 years ive seen lot of WCH masters (Chan Yiu Min Wing Chun, Yiu Kay Wing Chun, Yuen Chai Wan Wing Chun, Ling Nam Wing Chun, Gu Lao Wing Chun, Pang Nam Wing Chun, Yip Man Hong Kong + Yip Man Fatshan Wing Chun......) and EACH of them do some changes in his kung fu style. EACH one... After years of experience their kung fu is developed to higher level, their understanding is better, etc... Do you think is better to practice the same way like 200 years ago ? :-) Dont forget what we are doing - we study how to defend/fight. Times and people are changing, we dont have around us just poor countryside people like in China at this time... (my opinion, i like "old original" too - last time i meet and spend some time with one inehitor of Chan Yiu Min Weng Chun, GREAT experience, but im standing on the ground and see my idea why i choice to practice wing chun ) Sorry, She Ying Sau (snake hand) in MGW is not part of Sam Bai Fut section (or maybe we both use another counting/sectioning/names?) but fith part in SNT, later i can put here photo if you like. many greetings YiWan
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KPM
New Member
Posts: 30
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Post by KPM on Feb 15, 2005 7:09:13 GMT -5
----Hi YiWan! Welcome to the forum!
sorry, there is not any "Micky Wong"... We have Wong Jing (teacher of Wong Wu Fong), Wong Wu Fong (nickname "Mai Gei Wong" and father of my sifu) and Wong Nim Yi, my sifu and the inheritor of his father's system.
---Then my apologies. I shouldn't have just repeated what was written. I knew that was your teacher.....Wong Nim Yi, just assumed that maybe "Micky" was a westernization of his name that was in common use.
i cant se any "elaborated things" :-) for MY taste :-). See - in last 10 years ive seen lot of WCH masters (Chan Yiu Min Wing Chun, Yiu Kay Wing Chun, Yuen Chai Wan Wing Chun, Ling Nam Wing Chun, Gu Lao Wing Chun, Pang Nam Wing Chun, Yip Man Hong Kong + Yip Man Fatshan Wing Chun......) and EACH of them do some changes in his kung fu style. EACH one... After years of experience their kung fu is developed to higher level, their understanding is better, etc...
---Yes, you are right. Everything changes to some extent. Otherwise it would be a museum piece! :-)
Do you think is better to practice the same way like 200 years ago ? :-)
---Probably not. But it would make researching historical connections easier! :-)
Sorry, She Ying Sau (snake hand) in MGW is not part of Sam Bai Fut section (or maybe we both use another counting/sectioning/names?) but fith part in SNT, later i can put here photo if you like.
---I have your teacher's VCDs but haven't looked at them in awhile. I'll have to go back and recheck. Again, welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around and talk a bit!
Keith
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PaulH
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by PaulH on Feb 15, 2005 16:18:46 GMT -5
YiWan,
Of all WC hands, Your Sifu's is the fairest of all. I always say to myself: "Sheer poetry in motion." Pleasure to meet you. =)
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Post by chaotic2k on Feb 25, 2005 7:18:29 GMT -5
I study the Wong Shun Leung method of Wing chun, even though Wong shun Leung was a student of GM Yip Man He devloped his own way of applying the Wing chun. Wing chun like most kung fu is a concept, an idea and i think Wong Shun Leung was a genius in his application. There are alot of things totally different to Yip Man's wing chun but everything Wong expressed is a pure representation of the underlining theroy of wing chun. I think through Wongs fighting experience where it was said he had over 100 fights with various styles Plus his down to earth instincts, he has made a very good version of Wing chun. Also i would like to add, i think Yip man filterd alot of wing chun due to wing chuns basic concept "simplicity" and to only use what is needed and i think through this Wong shun Leung did the same and took it to another level. Wing chun is not an incomplete system as many think, but a refined approch to no nonsense street fighting. Thank you
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sihing
New Member
Wing Chun Instructor-training since 1988
Posts: 16
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Post by sihing on Feb 26, 2005 0:04:52 GMT -5
I think alot of the problem was when Wing Chun really started to grow in popularity, back when Yip Man was still alive. Due to Bruce Lee and others fighting prowess (Wong, Cheung, etc..) Wing Chun became the top dog style in Hong Kong, schools were growing and people were starting to make money off of teaching it too others. Why Yip Man did not name a successor at this time is beyond me? Also from what I understand, Yip did not like teaching Martial Arts and had a inconsistent way of doing it, changing things around at various times in his teaching career and also reinforcing things that were not correct (for e.g. I've heard stories that when two seperate students asked Yip about how to do the Tan Sao correct, although they both did it differently, he still said both were correct, how can this be? Is the Tan sao high with the palm face height or low with the palm sternum height, IMO face height is correct, for the application that Tan serves). Also the money thing again, with students eager around the world to learn "Bruce Lee's" first Martial Art, enrollments increased and Wing Chun became big business, so maybe to seperate one another, Yip's seniors had to be different to stand out in the crowd. In my research, most of the Wing Chun I see around is relatively the same, with differences of course in applications, except for the TWC version (William Cheung system) and HFY Wing Chun which is not of the Yip line and also the China versions, not that I'm a expert in all the systems but as a long time student of Wing Chun with many many hours of study behind me, I think I'm allowed a opinion on what constitutes differences between Wing Chun systems. But since the majority of Wing Chun in the world today is through the Yip Man lines, we can consider that the standard.
Plus not all instructors are passing on their entire or correct knowledge, and this is a tragedy, and makes things that much harder for future practitioners of Wing Chun, and portrays the Art of Wing Chun to others in a bad way. For myself, as a teacher I have no problem giving all my knowledge away, as a quality student is good for the art and a good reflection on their teacher.
James
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